Why aren't you playing to your real potential?

[MadAdey]

I know for a fact that if you give me 10 shots from 40 yards and 80 yards (80 is a full 56 for me) then I will get that little fiddly 40 yarder closer much more than the 80 yarder.

I’d bet it’s the same for the vast majority of amateurs. Just because you are comfortable with a distance doesn’t mean you will hit it closer. All the stats show this. It’s the reason now nearly everyone on Tour goes for the green on 10 at Riviera instead of laying up to a yardage, the stats show that those that get closer score better over time.

I think we have slightly gone away from my original point of putting it in the fairway as opposed to playing from closer, but in the rough. Proximity to hole from 100-125 yards the tour average is 31'8" from the rough, but 18'10" from the fairway at the same range. It is 26'10" at 150-175 yards, so 50 yards further back the tour average is 5' closer when playing from the fairway as opposed to the rough. I think that stat backs up my point about being able to control the ball easier from the fairway than hte rough.

 

[MadAdey]

Have a look at pro proximity to hole.
It is closer to the hole as the shots are shorter.
There's no magic distance where it's shorter because they prefer it. I've seen no evidence that this trend is different for ams, apart from the purely anecdotal.
Here is an image with some actual research. I can't embed it, so you'll need to link.
https://wrxcdn.golfwrx.com/uploads/monthly_2020_10/image.png.2187df0f9f3e8c9c1dfcdeac8dc69c43.png
Both the likelihood of hitting the green and distance from hole get progressively worse as you get further away. There is no 80 yard "bump".
My answer to the OPs question would be that am golfers don't reach their potential because they talk themselves into all sorts of horses#@t....
...and aren't openminded enough to change even when the data suggests it.
Me and sammerbee are on the world's smallest island on this one though...

I think you have missed my point about playing from the fairway and rough. Of course playing from 100 yards on the fairway you will be closer than 150. But look at the stats I just posted about playing the rough and fairway.

 

[MadAdey]

This for me sums it up I don't need more birdies to improve, i need less doubles. Chasing birdies leads to more doubles. Course management is about eliminating big numbers for better scoring overall. Testosterone is your enemy.

That is exactly where I was. I thought by hitting more birdies I would score lower, which yes you will. But it wasn't the lack of birdies, it was too many bogeys that cost me. I think it is easier to keep bogeys from the card than adding birdies to it.

 

[Imurg]

Who says I'm not playing to my full potential....?

Largely in agreement.
Layout of the hole, slopes where the driver ball would finish as opposed to a 3 wood ball, depth of rough, "clean" rough or knarly, bobbly horrible lie rough..
Everything needs to be taken into account.
Our 3rd hole is 400 yards.
If I hit driver I'll be less than 150 away but with the ball above my feet and on a downslope - even in the middle of the fairway
If I hit 3 wood ( or 4 wood in my case) I may be 30 yards further away but I'll have a predominantly flat stance and above the hole so I can be sure of getting some stop.
An isolated example but I'd much rather be on a flat lie than having to manipulate the swing to get good contact.
I have got more chance of hitting the green from 170 than 140 in this instance.

 

[MadAdey]

So the issue was failing to allow for the potential you could get a flier and selecting an appropriate shot.

How much distance do you give up with a hybrid compared to a driver? 40/50 yards? There is no way you are more accurate from 40 yards further away but in the fairway compared to being in the first cut.

Then consider what happens when you "play safe" off the tee and still miss the fairway. Which will happen just as much as with a driver. Just watch the pros when they hit 3 wood or iron!

Whoever pointed out that being closer to the green is correct. Scoring gets better the closer you are.

You've made a couple of good points there. How can anyone allow for a flier, so you take less club it comes out clean and you leave it short. So should you have taken more club, then if you get a flier it is a lost ball. Playing from the rough is unpredictable, the pros prove that, by the fact that they are twice as close from the fairway as opposed to playing from the rough. Infact they are closer when playing from 50 yards further back than in the rough.

I am not talking about playing safe, I am talking not bringing trouble into play. If I said to you I will give you a million if you can hit either one of these targets. One is a hybrid into a 40 yard gap, or a driver into a 20 yard gap, which you going for.

 

[MadAdey]

Who says I'm not playing to my full potential....?

Largely in agreement.
Layout of the hole, slopes where the driver ball would finish as opposed to a 3 wood ball, depth of rough, "clean" rough or knarly, bobbly horrible lie rough..
Everything needs to be taken into account.
Our 3rd hole is 400 yards.
If I hit driver I'll be less than 150 away but with the ball above my feet and on a downslope - even in the middle of the fairway
If I hit 3 wood ( or 4 wood in my case) I may be 30 yards further away but I'll have a predominantly flat stance and above the hole so I can be sure of getting some stop.
An isolated example but I'd much rather be on a flat lie than having to manipulate the swing to get good contact.
I have got more chance of hitting the green from 170 than 140 in this instance.

You have hit the nail on the head regarding this post. People are getting hung up on distance from hole letting you score better as opposed to my point of putting the ball in a position that gives you the best chance of getting on the green. Nice to see someone has actually read my opening post and got the point that I was trying to make.

 

[Oddsocks]

I don't make enough putts and 3 putt far too often.

This used to be me but I putter fitting sorted that and ironically what was my weakest point is now one of my strongest.

 

[MadAdey]

Both myself and a couple of others have mentioned having the sweet point for distance from hole, with me being at 80 yards. Yes the stats for the pros prove that closer to the green gets you closer to the hole, but they also hit more balls a day than I hit in a week and can easily dial in shots from all distances. I do not have this luxury and so need to concentrate on mastering 1 shot as my pro told me. After a lesson with a wedge we found that 80 yards was that distance for me.

 

[clubchamp98]

You have hit the nail on the head regarding this post. People are getting hung up on distance from hole letting you score better as opposed to my point of putting the ball in a position that gives you the best chance of getting on the green. Nice to see someone has actually read my opening post and got the point that I was trying to make.

It does depend on the type of rough as well.
Bryson can handle the rough as he is mainly hitting a wedge.
But everyone else is hitting 7/8 iron on the same hole.
I would put my money on a top pro hitting the green from the fairway than BDC out the rough.
But for us ams it’s easier with wedge than hybrid.
But your pro is probably not fazed from the distance he left himself, so it’s about skill/ confidence as well.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

My course management is prob one of my strengths and one of the biggest reasons why my handicap is so low

I reckon I’m playing to my potential most of the time and I’m in doubt that practise won’t make a difference - haven’t ever practiced or any lessons - would that get me lower ?‍ Nah

 

[Lump]

Might not be maxing out my potential but I’m dammed well close.
If I keep it straight off the tee and take my chances on par5’s I score well. End of.

 

[MadAdey]

It does depend on the type of rough as well.
Bryson can handle the rough as he is mainly hitting a wedge.
But everyone else is hitting 7/8 iron on the same hole.
I would put my money on a top pro hitting the green from the fairway than BDC out the rough.
But for us ams it’s easier with wedge than hybrid.
But your pro is probably not fazed from the distance he left himself, so it’s about skill/ confidence as well.

Not trying to look at it as individual golfers and certainly not get into comparissons between us us and the 1% of the worlds golfers ie tour pro/elite amateur. BUt not to repeat myself I did show the stats for tour pros from 100-125 and they are half the proximity to the hole than when in the rough and still closer by 5' from 150-175 from the fairway than 100-125 from the rough on average.

But for us ams it’s easier with wedge than hybrid.

I am not talking about difference between 100 and 200 yards, obviously your better in the rough at 100 yards than 200 in the fairway. I am talking about the difference between having a wedge from the rough or a 6i from the fairway.

 

[MadAdey]

People are talking about prefering to have a short iron from the rough rather than a 6i from the fairway. I do not want this to come across as I am being a dick, but if you can't hit a 6i from the fairway onto a green with confidence then maybe you have reached your potential. I do not know any single figure handicap player that lacks confidence with any of his irons from the fairway.

 

[clubchamp98]

Not trying to look at it as individual golfers and certainly not get into comparissons between us us and the 1% of the worlds golfers ie tour pro/elite amateur. BUt not to repeat myself I did show the stats for tour pros from 100-125 and they are half the proximity to the hole than when in the rough and still closer by 5' from 150-175 from the fairway than 100-125 from the rough on average.


I am not talking about difference between 100 and 200 yards, obviously your better in the rough at 100 yards than 200 in the fairway. I am talking about the difference between having a wedge from the rough or a 6i from the fairway.

Depends on the rough.
At West Lancs I would have the 6i on the fairway it’s brutal there in places.
But on many parkland courses inc mine prob the wedge from the rough.
That’s where course management comes in you need to know your rough .

 

[garyinderry]

People are talking about prefering to have a short iron from the rough rather than a 6i from the fairway. I do not want this to come across as I am being a dick, but if you can't hit a 6i from the fairway onto a green with confidence then maybe you have reached your potential. I do not know any single figure handicap player that lacks confidence with any of his irons from the fairway.

I am that player. Irons are my weakest part of my game by far. Tend to hit them fat. Down to 8 iron is decent. After that they can be very hit and miss.

I've had everything up to a 7 hybrid in my bag at one stage. In fact got to my lowest handicap with that set up. Lowest is a 6 iron at the minute.

 

[BiMGuy]

People are talking about prefering to have a short iron from the rough rather than a 6i from the fairway. I do not want this to come across as I am being a dick, but if you can't hit a 6i from the fairway onto a green with confidence then maybe you have reached your potential. I do not know any single figure handicap player that lacks confidence with any of his irons from the fairway.

I'd take a 9 iron from the first cut over a 6 iron from the fairway every time.

At my current club, precision into the green, or missing in the right spot is paramount. The further away you are the harder that becomes.

 

[Beezerk]

I barely practice, I may go to the driving range 3 or 4 times a year tops.
My handicap has stagnated due to this but I play for fun and try not to take golf so seriously these days.

 

[Orikoru]

Both myself and a couple of others have mentioned having the sweet point for distance from hole, with me being at 80 yards. Yes the stats for the pros prove that closer to the green gets you closer to the hole, but they also hit more balls a day than I hit in a week and can easily dial in shots from all distances. I do not have this luxury and so need to concentrate on mastering 1 shot as my pro told me. After a lesson with a wedge we found that 80 yards was that distance for me.

That's all well and good but you have to be pretty bloody good to lay up to an exact distance! Personally I love 100 yards, as my 50° wedge that I've had for years is a club I know will go 100 yards. But if you gave me ten attempts to lay up to 100 yards I might get one shot from there plus a bunch of others from 90, 115, 110, 125 yards, etc... It's not a strategy I can ever really consider going with. ?

That's why I'm in the nearer the better camp. I might not be great from 60 yards say, but I can figure something out, as opposed to trying to lay up to 100 yards and accidentally giving myself 120, where I think the green becomes a lot more missable than it is from 60. Laying up to a spot on yardage is pie in the sky talk.

 

[Barking_Mad]

This for driving decisions

 

[clubchamp98]

That's all well and good but you have to be pretty bloody good to lay up to an exact distance! Personally I love 100 yards, as my 50° wedge that I've had for years is a club I know will go 100 yards. But if you gave me ten attempts to lay up to 100 yards I might get one shot from there plus a bunch of others from 90, 115, 110, 125 yards, etc... It's not a strategy I can ever really consider going with. ?

That's why I'm in the nearer the better camp. I might not be great from 60 yards say, but I can figure something out, as opposed to trying to lay up to 100 yards and accidentally giving myself 120, where I think the green becomes a lot more missable than it is from 60. Laying up to a spot on yardage is pie in the sky talk.

It’s mainly for par 5s.
So I have 250 yds water on the right.
I will hit 5 iron 170 yds to leave myself 80 yds.
If I try and get 210/220 yds from 3 wood that can go anywhere.
It’s not exact but a 5 iron is easier to hit than 3 wood.
So takes the big numbers off the card.