WHS - What Clubs need to do / buy???

[Swango1980]

Hello

I've downloaded the WHS Toolkit, continued publicising WHS to members, using the resources within that Toolkit. However, can anyone tell confirm to me, or point me in the right direction, as to the full requirements, especially in terms of investment from the club. Such as:

Scorecards - we'll obviously need a new design, and can largely specify that ourselves. But, any examples around, to ensure we don't miss anything stupid off the cards?
Index Conversion Charts - I know these are required, but where do we buy them and how much (our Owner has no idea)
Apps - Are these just something that will evolve naturally from what we use already (i.e. Club V1 and howdidido), or will there be further licenses we need to invest in?
Anything else?

Thanks

 

[rulefan]

Hello

I've downloaded the WHS Toolkit, continued publicising WHS to members, using the resources within that Toolkit. However, can anyone tell confirm to me, or point me in the right direction, as to the full requirements, especially in terms of investment from the club. Such as:

Scorecards - we'll obviously need a new design, and can largely specify that ourselves. But, any examples around, to ensure we don't miss anything stupid off the cards?
Index Conversion Charts - I know these are required, but where do we buy them and how much (our Owner has no idea)
Apps - Are these just something that will evolve naturally from what we use already (i.e. Club V1 and howdidido), or will there be further licenses we need to invest in?
Anything else?

Thanks

Cards and notices
http://www.eagle.uk.com/WHSinfo.html

Apps
All the major ISVs have (or will have apps). ClubV1, IG and HandicapMaster (via Golf Genius)

 

[jim8flog]

Hello

I've downloaded the WHS Toolkit, continued publicising WHS to members, using the resources within that Toolkit. However, can anyone tell confirm to me, or point me in the right direction, as to the full requirements, especially in terms of investment from the club. Such as:

Scorecards - we'll obviously need a new design, and can largely specify that ourselves. But, any examples around, to ensure we don't miss anything stupid off the cards?
Index Conversion Charts - I know these are required, but where do we buy them and how much (our Owner has no idea)
Apps - Are these just something that will evolve naturally from what we use already (i.e. Club V1 and howdidido), or will there be further licenses we need to invest in?
Anything else?

Thanks

Worth checking what your area Authority/ England golf are going to supply before using the clubs own cash. Apparently when I suggested we get our printing under way I was told there was no need for one item I suggested as the county had stuff in the offing.

We had new cards a couple of months ago and one thing the manager missed is that there is a requirement for 3 boxes for handicaps - Handicap Index, Course Handicap and playing handicap(the old shots allowed) with the WHS.

The Slope indexes need to be on the card.

I am in two minds about whether or not the course rating needs to be on the card for the WHS it is on ours simply because we are using the cards now.

 

[rulefan]

Worth checking what your area Authority/ England golf are going to supply before using the clubs own cash. Apparently when I suggested we get our printing under way I was told there was no need for one item I suggested as the county had stuff in the offing.

We had new cards a couple of months ago and one thing the manager missed is that there is a requirement for 3 boxes for handicaps - Handicap Index, Course Handicap and playing handicap(the old shots allowed) with the WHS.

The Slope indexes need to be on the card.

I am in two minds about whether or not the course rating needs to be on the card for the WHS it is on ours simply because we are using the cards now.

I have been told by EG that only the Course Handicap needs to be on the card. The others are optional. Although they are known by the system, personally I think Playing Handicap would be useful. However, I understand the the ISVs will have the facility to include all on the labels or cards that they can print if the club's system is set up that way.

 

[jim8flog]

I have been told by EG that only the Course Handicap needs to be on the card. The others are optional. Although they are known by the system, personally I think Playing Handicap would be useful. However, I understand the the ISVs will have the facility to include all on the labels or cards that they can print if the club's system is set up that way.

The question comes if a player has the correct Handicap Index on the card but no other boxes for handicap have been completed will it be DQ or not. Seems a bit harsh if it is.

The briefing went out to our members that the H.I. must be on the card as this is exactly what was said at the workshops in response to the specific question being asked.

My personal view is that having the correct H.I on the card makes the most sense as this figure is 'set in stone' and the other two could be miscalculated or misread off the charts.

IT will be interesting to see what is shown on the computer screens when entering cards on the PSI system as currently they show playing handicap which has to be confirmed before entering the score.

Will the PSI and APPS show H.I, Course or Playing or 2 or all 3?

Given that is easy to add these figures from the screen to the card if they are there and before the card is submitted hopefully we will not see any DQs anyway.

 

[jim8flog]

I have been told by EG that only the Course Handicap needs to be on the card. The others are optional. Although they are known by the system, personally I think Playing Handicap would be useful. However, I understand the the ISVs will have the facility to include all on the labels or cards that they can print if the club's system is set up that way.

The other thing I would add
It is nice to see EG being consistent

From the Tool kit FAQS
Do I enter competitions using my Handicap Index or my Course Handicap?
Competition entry should be based on your Handicap Index. This will be clarified in
the Terms of Competition.

 

[rulefan]

From the Tool kit FAQS
Do I enter competitions using my Handicap Index or my Course Handicap?
Competition entry should be based on your Handicap Index. This will be clarified in
the Terms of Competition.

That makes sense. If there are limits on entry eg. below 2.0 (for elite comps) or above 15.4 (for Rabbits comps) it has to be on a fixed figure. Index is the only one that is.
Competition winning will depend on the course being played.

 

[Swango1980]

We'll certainly look to have a box for all 3 handicap figures. If it is confirmed which one is related to the Rules of Golf, we'll look to highlight that one maybe. But, there never seems to be a definitive answer, even England Golf were not 100% sure at Workshop. I can see arguments for Index (fixed number, less confusion for player) or Playing (what you actually play off in comp). Course Handicap just seems to float between the 2 and doesn't seem like it should be the one required to avoid DQ

 

[rulefan]

CH was what I got from the head concho.

 

[Swango1980]

CH was what I got from the head concho.

Cool, the workshop I attended was at Woodhall Spa, directly by England Golf. However, it was before lockdown, so I'm sure plenty of water has passed under bridge since then.

 

[Wildboy370]

On a similar note can any one answer the following. Currently if you do not submit your card you are DQ and get 0.1 back.
Under the WHS system I am led to believe the handicap index will be worked out for all rounds played on the course that day not just competition. So what happens if you enter your card as a scoring one before you go out and then do not enter the score ? Apparently for every non score on an NR card it will be calculated as a nett par, so if you do not enter a score at all will the system put you down for a nett par round for handicap purposes ? And therefore could become one of your best 8 which would deter some from doing this.

 

[Swango1980]

On a similar note can any one answer the following. Currently if you do not submit your card you are DQ and get 0.1 back.
Under the WHS system I am led to believe the handicap index will be worked out for all rounds played on the course that day not just competition. So what happens if you enter your card as a scoring one before you go out and then do not enter the score ? Apparently for every non score on an NR card it will be calculated as a nett par, so if you do not enter a score at all will the system put you down for a nett par round for handicap purposes ? And therefore could become one of your best 8 which would deter some from doing this.

I still have to get my head around this, and it will probably depend on why the player NRed. If they were having a stinker and then just NRed, I believe penalty scores can be applied. However, Committees have been asked to have disciplinary procedures for players doing this, because it can be more complicated to deal with compared to current system

 

[rulefan]

There a number of possible actions a committee can take depending on the reasons for not returning a score. Including withdrawing the player's Handicap Index and/or applying an appropriate penalty score (high or low depending on intent). They can also consider disciplinary action for repeat offenders. If the player's score is identifiable it should be posted for handicap purposes (with or without penalties).

 

[Old Skier]

Cards and notices
http://www.eagle.uk.com/WHSinfo.html

Apps
All the major ISVs have (or will have apps). ClubV1, IG and HandicapMaster (via Golf Genius)

Eagle also sent out a voucher to all clubs via England Golf for (I think) £25 off

 

[Old Skier]

We'll certainly look to have a box for all 3 handicap figures. If it is confirmed which one is related to the Rules of Golf, we'll look to highlight that one maybe. But, there never seems to be a definitive answer, even England Golf were not 100% sure at Workshop. I can see arguments for Index (fixed number, less confusion for player) or Playing (what you actually play off in comp). Course Handicap just seems to float between the 2 and doesn't seem like it should be the one required to avoid DQ

If we move more towards an electronic scores entry system hopefully all of this will become irrelevant.

 

[Swango1980]

If we move more towards an electronic scores entry system hopefully all of this will become irrelevant.

The R&A would need to remove the rule regarding scorecards though.

 

[Swango1980]

Eagle also sent out a voucher to all clubs via England Golf for (I think) £25 off

Yeah, I think it was £40 off

Does anyone know how much these Conversion Charts cost? Say for just the board, and then the sign (say for erecting near the 1st tee)? What else will clubs be investing in?

 

[rulefan]

The R&A would need to remove the rule regarding scorecards though.

They made the provision in the 2019 Rules.

 

[Swango1980]

I have been told by EG that only the Course Handicap needs to be on the card. The others are optional. Although they are known by the system, personally I think Playing Handicap would be useful. However, I understand the the ISVs will have the facility to include all on the labels or cards that they can print if the club's system is set up that way.

I've just been looking at scorecard examples for WHS, and stumbled across Aguilon Members Club in Spain. They only have one handicap on card, and it is "Playing Handicap" (I'm not sure if this is pre or post WHS). However, this just seems to be getting confusing, if England Golf are saying it must be Course Handicap, yet other countries seem to specifically have Playing Handicap on cards.

Also, will clubs be having CR and BR on cards? And, will they put the front and back 9 Slope information on card as well as full 18?

 

[jim8flog]

CH was what I got from the head concho.

I had thought about a potential problem if it is CH where I play particularly for early starters.

We have two greens on hole 16 and and different tees as appropriate for hole 17. There is s a different Slope Index depending on which are in play. The decision on which are used is weather dependent and will be made by the greenstaff which is in use during their morning working session and sometimes it will get changed during the day. I do not know at which point they notify the office (which does not open until about 8.30 - 9 ish and does not open on a Sunday) to relay this information.

Early morning and sometimes later players will not know which green is in use until they arrive at the 16th tee.

If it is not known in advance which is going to be used all comps are set up for the longer course and only get get changed/altered as necessary when the cards are being entered and the comp is being finalised at weekends on the Monday.

I also see this being a problem with all scores being uploaded on the day they are entered and a wrong course conditions calculation being made as the difference between the two is 2 shots (the par 5 becomes par 4 and the par 4 becomes par 3).

P.S. earlier you mentioned about stickers being done for cards. This probably will no longer happen. The earliest that a players H.I. for the day is known will be 12.01 am . I cannot see clubs having someone in the office at that time time of day just to print labels. It is something we had already discussed on our committee and realised that in future players will be responsible for recording their handicaps on cards them self.