WHS doesn't work

[clubchamp98]

They have, though some must be in denial to assume WHS hasn't made it easier for those types of people.

Yes that is spot on .
But the ones who are in denial think it’s the Handicap comittiees fault ,and not a very easy system to manipulate if that way inclined.

 

[D-S]

Interesting to note that some clubs are introducing a set number of competition rounds as an eligibility criterion for winning competitions - so the number of GP played rounds is not a factor.
This has been precipitated by the EG elite competition ruling banning players with 4 or more GP rounds if their GP average is 2 or more less than their competition average.
Also interesting to hear that the County has not used handicap level for squad selection for the past 20 years.

 

[clubchamp98]

Interesting to note that some clubs are introducing a set number of competition rounds as an eligibility criterion for winning competitions - so the number of GP played rounds is not a factor.
This has been precipitated by the EG elite competition ruling banning players with 4 or more GP rounds if their GP average is 2 or more less than their competition average.
Also interesting to hear that the County has not used handicap level for squad selection for the past 20 years.

That was always going to happen .
How will it be policed though.?
if someone wins with to many GP cards will trophy go to second place. (Or just denied entry )
or will their handicap change to best 8 comp cards.
can’t help thinking they have made a problem for themselves (EG)

 

[BillyTheFish777]

That was always going to happen .
How will it be policed though.?
if someone wins with to many GP cards will trophy go to second place. (Or just denied entry )
or will their handicap change to best 8 comp cards.
can’t help thinking they have made a problem for themselves (EG)

If you're wondering whether EG have made a problem for themselves, then this policy will only apply to their elite events, i.e. no handicaps involved so no need to change handicap. The policy is to ensure players aren't manipulating their handicap downwards to gain entry. If they have too many GP scores and the difference between competition play and general play is too large, then the entry will be denied.

If, on the other hand, you wonder whether clubs may be making a problem for themselves, then yes some won't think through some of the consequences such as you've suggested until it's too late.

 

[clubchamp98]

If you're wondering whether EG have made a problem for themselves, then this policy will only apply to their elite events, i.e. no handicaps involved so no need to change handicap. The policy is to ensure players aren't manipulating their handicap downwards to gain entry. If they have too many GP scores and the difference between competition play and general play is too large, then the entry will be denied.

If, on the other hand, you wonder whether clubs may be making a problem for themselves, then yes some won't think through some of the consequences such as you've suggested until it's too late.

Yes my thoughts are .
we have a handicap system that encourages players to put multiple cards in.
then tells us they won’t count if your handicap is low enough.

so unless we have a two tier system for am golfers clubs are going to face problems in how they implement the criteria for qualifying comps.
that’s a mess imo.

ps EG do use handicaps to ballot out their comps.

 

[wjemather]

That was always going to happen .
How will it be policed though.?
if someone wins with to many GP cards will trophy go to second place. (Or just denied entry )
or will their handicap change to best 8 comp cards.
can’t help thinking they have made a problem for themselves (EG)

In the case of EG elite comps, entries will be denied having been vetted in advance. Also, the policy only applies to elite scratch events - the measure is simply to ensure the best tournament players do not miss out on entry in favour of someone whose handicap record indicates that their index may not truly reflect their ability.

In the case of a club run comp, advance vetting is very unlikely, so the committee is reliant on entrants reading and understanding the terms of competition before entering, and face the prospect of having an argument in the event someone they have deemed "undesirable" wins anything. As such, clubs need to think very carefully about if and how they implement restrictions.

A competition committee should never unilaterally alter anyone's official WHS handicap or stroke entitlement.

 

[clubchamp98]

In the case of EG elite comps, entries will be denied having been vetted in advance. Also, the policy only applies to elite scratch events - the measure is simply to ensure the best tournament players do not miss out on entry in favour of someone whose handicap record indicates that their index does not truly reflect their ability.

In the case of a club run comp, advance vetting is very unlikely, so the committee is reliant on entrants reading and understanding the terms of competition before entering, and face the prospect of having an argument in the event someone they have deemed "undesirable" wins anything. As such, clubs need to think very carefully about if and how they implement restrictions.

A competition committee should never unilaterally alter anyone's official WHS handicap or stroke entitlement.

Agree with the last statement
But the players handicap will change if the don’t allow GP cards .( or a certain amount)
I can’t see how they get around that one.

The Comp conditions are going to be interesting!

 

[wjemather]

Agree with the last statement
But the players handicap will change if the don’t allow GP cards .( or a certain amount)
I can’t see how they get around that one.

The Comp conditions are going to be interesting!

No it won't.
EG are not disallowing GP scores.
The player's handicap index will always be whatever WHS says it is, including any GP scores.

 

[D-S]

The clubs that I have heard of doing this will just deny winning to players with insufficient compe rounds in their record, not deny entry. This means that they only need to check the records of prize winners not the entire field. So it doesn’t seem that problematic.

 

[wjemather]

The clubs that I have heard of doing this will just deny winning to players with insufficient compe rounds in their record, not deny entry. This means that they only need to check the records of prize winners not the entire field. So it doesn’t seem that problematic.

Until they have to tell someone they are not eligible to win the trophy/prize they thought they had won...
"Why did you let me/us enter if you are not going to let me/us win anything?", etc.

 

[clubchamp98]

The clubs that I have heard of doing this will just deny winning to players with insufficient compe rounds in their record, not deny entry. This means that they only need to check the records of prize winners not the entire field. So it doesn’t seem that problematic.

So if a player wins a board comp but has to many GP cards it’s taken away from them?
Thats going to cause massive problems imo.

system encourages lots of cards then tells you ,you can’t win . Jeez.

 

[clubchamp98]

No it won't.
EG are not disallowing GP scores.
The player's handicap index will always be whatever WHS says it is, including any GP scores.

How can a club possibly say “ your not eligible to win”
if your cap is set by the criteria and can’t change.
Trouble imo if they do that.

but it does put the onus on players to read the COC.

 

[Swango1980]

How can a club possibly say “ your not eligible to win”
if your cap is set by the criteria and can’t change.
Trouble imo if they do that.

This was common pre WHS at my club, and I am sure at many others. A player who had not submitted 3 scores in the last year (i.e. didn't have a "c" next to their handicap, denoting competition handicap), were allowed to play in competitions, but could not win the prize. This was understood by them beforehand. They would simply enter to add more scores to their handicap record and get back "c", or maybe they just wanted a game of golf.

 

[clubchamp98]

This was common pre WHS at my club, and I am sure at many others. A player who had not submitted 3 scores in the last year (i.e. didn't have a "c" next to their handicap, denoting competition handicap), were allowed to play in competitions, but could not win the prize. This was understood by them beforehand. They would simply enter to add more scores to their handicap record and get back "c", or maybe they just wanted a game of golf.

Is the C handicap avaliable in WHS ?
it might have to be included so people know where they stand.

 

[D-S]

So if a player wins a board comp but has to many GP cards it’s taken away from them?
Thats going to cause massive problems imo.

system encourages lots of cards then tells you ,you can’t win . Jeez.

No it’s not too many GP competitions, it is insufficient competition rounds.

 

[wjemather]

How can a club possibly say “ your not eligible to win”
if your cap is set by the criteria and can’t change.
Trouble imo if they do that.

but it does put the onus on players to read the COC.

And especially in the case of opens with such restrictions in place, committees should make the terms of competition absolutely clear to players when they sign-in on the day.

It also helps to have alternative prize(s) for ineligible winners.

 

[D-S]

Until they have to tell someone they are not eligible to win the trophy/prize they thought they had won...
"Why did you let me/us enter if you are not going to let me/us win anything?", etc.

At my club we allow players with less than 5 qualifying scores in their record to enter competitions but we make it clear, that players that don’t have sufficient scores in their record for the past 12 months are not eligible to win. This is on the sign up page for competition entry. We have done this for the past two years and have had no problems at all.

 

[wjemather]

At my club we allow players with less than 5 qualifying scores in their record to enter competitions but we make it clear, that players that don’t have sufficient scores in their record for the past 12 months are not eligible to win. This is on the sign up page for competition entry. We have done this for the past two years and have had no problems at all.

It's much easier to manage member expectations/disgruntlement in a closed club comp than visitor expectations/disgruntlement in an open.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

There might be a difference in comp v GP rounds for elite amateur (surely a contradiction) events.
But no one can seriously tell me there is a material difference between a GP round and a weekly stableford or even monthly medal?

 

[clubchamp98]

And especially in the case of opens with such restrictions in place, committees should make the terms of competition absolutely clear to players when they sign-in on the day.

It also helps to have alternative prize(s) for ineligible winners.

I would think that needs explanation before you book a tee at an open.
Travelling and a day in the sun score will be no good if you can’t win.!

imo it’s not great to win a comp because the golfer who beat you was eliminated for this.
Just not golf as I see it. Or any other sport!
This will cause more harm than good.