WHS doesn't work

[Backsticks]

I think the score differentials in the screenshot already include the ESR reduction. Before he shot the great round, they were probably all 2 higher?

Thats how they do them. Had a one shot one last year and it adjusted my scores downwards by 1. Can see the logic, as it then unwinds them as they drop out the bottom. But annoying, in that it distorts your records, essentially rewriting history.

 

[D-S]

But, Do they know?

Some will, some won’t.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Yep
He has had an ESR of 2 as a result which gets amended to the score and the previous 19 too.
So add 16 to the sum of the 8 SDs shown. Comes to 19.15.

I would be interested to see a screenshot of the score @Wabinez

I forgot that is how ESRs get applied now.

The score on EG just shows a load of asterisks rather than actual hole scores. In the comp, he contributed to 32 points out of the winning 44 on his 13 holes

 

[D-S]

It definitely was, as shown in the screenshot. Wasn’t until I added them all up I was wondering how it was 19.2 to begin with.

I would honestly wait until yet another fix is made by EG hopefully by tomorrow evening.
There are some serious glitches in the system with some scores that are ‘acceptable’ and hence having a material effect on HI being calculated totally wrongly. As I said in a previous post many players have played with the wrong handicaps this weekend.
Why on earth EG didn’t suspend qualifying 4 BBs a couple of weeks ago when these issues were flagged? It’s not like it’s a cornerstone of WHS.

 

[Tractor Wheal]

I forgot that is how ESRs get applied now.

The score on EG just shows a load of asterisks rather than actual hole scores. In the comp, he contributed to 32 points out of the winning 44 on his 13 holes

Thanks. I guessed it might just show * for Estimated.

So SD probably made up of
32pts
+7.5 (5 holes * 1.5)
+ 2 or 3 (for the 15% added back)
Rounded down to about 42 or so.

Not sure how that gets an ESR of 2.

 

[Backsticks]

Thanks. I guessed it might just show * for Estimated.

So SD probably made up of
32pts
+7.5 (5 holes * 1.5)
+ 2 or 3 (for the 15% added back)
Rounded down to about 42 or so.

Not sure how that gets an ESR of 2.

I think ESR of 2 applies for a diff 10 or more better than HI. 1 if its 7 below.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I think ESR of 2 applies for a diff 10 or more better than HI. 1 if it’s 7 below.

Should it be automatically applied?

My lad did this on Saturday and his index was exactly what I calculated.

 

[Tractor Wheal]

I think ESR of 2 applies for a diff 10 or more better than HI. 1 if its 7 below.

It does indeed.
This guy has a HI of 19.2 and received a SD of 9.1 subject to ESR therefore 7.1.

I think it means the event was somewhere with a high Slope or big difference between CR and Par.

 

[Backsticks]

Should it be automatically applied?

My lad did this on Saturday and his index was exactly what I calculated.

View attachment 53031

In my one experience of it, it was. In the overnight update, the 20 most recent score diffs were all reduced by one. So HI was cut by whatever impact that singke good score had, and then one more, as each of the other counting 7 were now reduced by one. I doubt handicap cttee had any part in it, and presume the algorithm just applied it.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

In my one experience of it, it was. In the overnight update, the 20 most recent score diffs were all reduced by one. So HI was cut by whatever impact that singke good score had, and then one more, as each of the other counting 7 were now reduced by one. I doubt handicap cttee had any part in it, and presume the algorithm just applied it.

That hasn’t happened to the boy. All diffs are the same as they were prior to his round on Saturday.

 

[D-S]

Thanks. I guessed it might just show * for Estimated.

So SD probably made up of
32pts
+7.5 (5 holes * 1.5)
+ 2 or 3 (for the 15% added back)
Rounded down to about 42 or so.

Not sure how that gets an ESR of 2.

Yet more evidence rolling in of the interface between club comp software and the WHS portal miscalculating the ‘scale up’ of 4BB scores, giving far lower SDs, then ESR kicking in resulting in even greater errors in handicap changes - also these too high point scores have apparently meant that the PCC on the day is wrong too.

A series of errors building on the original error resulting in a slew of wrong HIs countrywide. The fix of Expected Score hasn’t worked at every course and there are a few problems out there too Let’s hope the proposed fix this week works and that it can unravel all the problems.

 

[wjemather]

Yet more evidence rolling in of the interface between club comp software and the WHS portal miscalculating the ‘scale up’ of 4BB scores, giving far lower SDs, then ESR kicking in resulting in even greater errors in handicap changes - also these too high point scores have apparently meant that the PCC on the day is wrong too.

A series of errors building on the original error resulting in a slew of wrong HIs countrywide. The fix of Expected Score hasn’t worked at every course and there are a few problems out there too Let’s hope the proposed fix this week works and that it can unravel all the problems.

As far as I know there is no miscalculation. ISVs have simply been sending the wrong scores through to dotgolf (WHS). They should be resending the correct scores early this week.

 

[Swango1980]

As far as I know there is no miscalculation. ISVs have simply been sending the wrong scores through to dotgolf (WHS). They should be resending the correct scores early this week.

Sounds like the software was updated as part of a pupil's Primary School project.

You'd think part of the basic alpha testing would ask the question "are we sending the correct score?". Beta testing the same.

Almost like the software guys came in on 30th March, and started the update process from scratch, to be rolled out the following day

 

[wjemather]

Sounds like the software was updated as part of a pupil's Primary School project.

You'd think part of the basic alpha testing would ask the question "are we sending the correct score?". Beta testing the same.

Almost like the software guys came in on 30th March, and started the update process from scratch, to be rolled out the following day

Not really. At least one ISV misunderstood that they only needed to send the competition Stableford scores (i.e. using 85%), and instead have been sending adjusted Stableford scores using 100% CH.
All the (85% to 100%) adjustments are done by dotgolf so by sending 100% scores, the scores have been further elevated by dotgolf.
The problem is exacerbated when players with different handicaps are both flagged as having the counting score.

 

[bobmac]

The last two Stableford comps I entered had winners with 43pts and 41pts. Now the former is probably out of reach of the low SF and +hcap players, but both are just within reach for med-high SF players

Absolutely ridiculous situation but nothing new.
I've said it for decades..... golf is the only sport that gets harder to win the better you get.

As an aside, would this thread not qualify for the Rules and handicapping section?

​

 

[D-S]

As far as I know there is no miscalculation. ISVs have simply been sending the wrong scores through to dotgolf (WHS). They should be resending the correct scores early this week.

Apologies, that should have read:-
"Yet more evidence rolling in of the interface between club comp software and the WHS portal resulting in wrong ‘scale up’ of 4BB scores, giving far lower SDs, then ESR kicking in resulting in even greater errors in handicap changes - also these too high point scores have apparently meant that the PCC on the day is wrong too.

A series of errors building on the original error resulting in a slew of wrong HIs countrywide. The fix of Expected Score hasn’t worked at every course and there are a few problems out there too Let’s hope the proposed fix this week works and that it can unravel all the problems".

I am sure that will put all those involved at ease.

 

[wjemather]

Apologies, that should have read:-
"Yet more evidence rolling in of the interface between club comp software and the WHS portal resulting in wrong ‘scale up’ of 4BB scores, giving far lower SDs, then ESR kicking in resulting in even greater errors in handicap changes - also these too high point scores have apparently meant that the PCC on the day is wrong too.

A series of errors building on the original error resulting in a slew of wrong HIs countrywide. The fix of Expected Score hasn’t worked at every course and there are a few problems out there too Let’s hope the proposed fix this week works and that it can unravel all the problems".

I am sure that will put all those involved at ease.

Accuracy is important.

Also, Expected Scores simply has prerequisites. To say the fix hasn't worked for some clubs is misleading because the fix is to fulfil the prerequisites.

 

[Swango1980]

Not really. At least one ISV misunderstood that they only needed to send the competition Stableford scores (i.e. using 85%), and instead have been sending adjusted Stableford scores using 100% CH.
All the (85% to 100%) adjustments are done by dotgolf so by sending 100% scores, the scores have been further elevated by dotgolf.
The problem is exacerbated when players with different handicaps are both flagged as having the counting score.

Pretty big flaw though, is it not?

For example, giving you some credit, had you been in charge of getting the updates, I'd like to think you wouldn't make such mistakes? Firstly, I'd expect you to be in touch with dotgolf, know exactly what it is they will be doing with data, so you know exactly what you need to send.

Following that, and once you've made your updates, I'd expect you to do a load of in-house alpha testing, checking you are getting the expected results and identifying any bugs.

And after that, beta testing, allowing independent people like yourself do some tests, to ensure they are not running into problems.

None of this seems to have been done very well. It is not like bugs are being found years later, and only occur in unusual circumstances. These major issues have pretty much been identified from Day 1.

 

[D-S]

Accuracy is important.

Also, Expected Scores simply has prerequisites. To say the fix hasn't worked for some clubs is misleading because the fix is to fulfil the prerequisites.

EG said that the Expected Score issue was being sorted out via a fix that they were putting in. Plainly this fix that they put in did not cover all courses or all 9 holes, hence when Expected Scores continued not to work at some clubs, resulting in acceptable scores not being able to be uploaded to the system resulting in player’s having and, still having, wrong HIs playing in subsequent competitions, the fix that EG put in plainly hasn’t worked for all clubs.

 

[D-S]

Pretty big flaw though, is it not?

For example, giving you some credit, had you been in charge of getting the updates, I'd like to think you wouldn't make such mistakes? Firstly, I'd expect you to be in touch with dotgolf, know exactly what it is they will be doing with data, so you know exactly what you need to send.

Following that, and once you've made your updates, I'd expect you to do a load of in-house alpha testing, checking you are getting the expected results and identifying any bugs.

And after that, beta testing, allowing independent people like yourself do some tests, to ensure they are not running into problems.

None of this seems to have been done very well. It is not like bugs are being found years later, and only occur in unusual circumstances. These major issues have pretty much been identified from Day 1.

The moment the bugs were discovered they could have easily suspended 4BB competitions being acceptable for handicap. That would be no big deal, they correctly warned us that it may not have been ready for April 1 implementation anyway.
However they didn’t and now there is a mess which has steadily grown bigger and bigger as more and more clubs have run 4BB comps as April has gone on.