WHS doesn't work

[D-S]

On US attitudes to gimmees, from a north American forum, the following as a by-the-way indicates where they are coming from with holing putts being a curio rather than people frowning at gimmees for qualifying cards (discussing flag in/out for putting) like some still do here :

brian7770​

Joined Nov 15, 2020 Messages1,672 Reaction score1,368 Location Central Ohio Handicap19.​

I played in a "mediocre" tournament, and we are required to hole the putts. I had one that hit the stick dead center but didn't go in. After that, I've been more likely to remove the stick on shorter putts.

In reality if in the US (as they use MLS) if someone in a GP round, although in a sense this is almost every round, if you putt up to 4 feet and someone says ‘that’s good’, you picki it up, then you have complied perfectly with the Rules of Handicapping.
It’s not about attitudes, it’s the rules,

 

[Alan Clifford]

In reality if in the US (as they use MLS) if someone in a GP round, although in a sense this is almost every round, if you putt up to 4 feet and someone says ‘that’s good’, you picki it up, then you have complied perfectly with the Rules of Handicapping.
It’s not about attitudes, it’s the rules,

No, no, no, no, no.

Rule 3.3

There are various circumstances that might result in a player starting a hole butnot holing out. For example, when:
l The result of the hole has already been decided,

l A hole has been conceded in match play,

l A player’s partner has already posted a better score in a Four-Ball format andthe player picks up, or

l A player has already reached their net double bogey limit on a specific hole.

When a player starts a hole but does not hole out for a valid reason, subject toother provisions set out within the Rules of Handicapping, the player must recordtheir most likely score or net double bogey, whichever is lower, as appropriate forthe situation and depending on the format of play.

 

[D-S]

No, no, no, no, no.

Rule 3.3

There are various circumstances that might result in a player starting a hole butnot holing out. For example, when:
l The result of the hole has already been decided,

l A hole has been conceded in match play,

l A player’s partner has already posted a better score in a Four-Ball format andthe player picks up, or

l A player has already reached their net double bogey limit on a specific hole.

When a player starts a hole but does not hole out for a valid reason, subject toother provisions set out within the Rules of Handicapping, the player must recordtheir most likely score or net double bogey, whichever is lower, as appropriate forthe situation and depending on the format of play.

I understand your point but in probably a hundred or so rounds in the US when we have been paired up with other golfers, they have almost invariably been conceding putts and entering scores for handicap - perhaps they consider they are playing matchplay and that is ok even when the above rule says that the hole needs to have been conceded. It would be strange in matchplay to always have to hole out as the hole itself hasn’t been conceded yet?

 

[Backsticks]

I am presuming the comment re holing out referred to a strokeplay tournament rather than a match. But the case isnt clear.

 

[Alan Clifford]

I understand your point but in probably a hundred or so rounds in the US when we have been paired up with other golfers, they have almost invariably been conceding putts and entering scores for handicap - perhaps they consider they are playing matchplay and that is ok even when the above rule says that the hole needs to have been conceded. It would be strange in matchplay to always have to hole out as the hole itself hasn’t been conceded yet?

Maybe they play matchplay.

 

[Alan Clifford]

When playing matchplay, how does conceding a hole and most likely score for handicap gel together? Say you've had a real meltdown and you opponent is 25 yards form the pin. You concede the hole. Under the most likely score rule, the concedee should add 2 or 3 shots to his score for handicap purposes. I shall ask what the guys do next time I'm in South Africa.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Checked out our clubs 4BBB results from yesterday to see if there were any handicap changes from the new rules.

Didn’t take long…first name I picked was a 19 handicapper who won the tournament with his partner. The 19 capper came in on 13 holes.

Handicap got cut from 19.2 to 15.6. Delightful.

 

[rulefan]

Checked out our clubs 4BBB results from yesterday to see if there were any handicap changes from the new rules.

Didn’t take long…first name I picked was a 19 handicapper who won the tournament with his partner. The 19 capper came in on 13 holes.

Handicap got cut from 19.2 to 15.6. Delightful.

What were his previous best differentials?

 

[YandaB]

Checked out our clubs 4BBB results from yesterday to see if there were any handicap changes from the new rules.

Didn’t take long…first name I picked was a 19 handicapper who won the tournament with his partner. The 19 capper came in on 13 holes.

Handicap got cut from 19.2 to 15.6. Delightful.

So, do we need to change the thread title to "WHS, it does work!"

 

[Deleted member 15717]

What were his previous best differentials?

17.6
17.2
14.9
18.9
14.7
18.1
16.6
19.2

How the system equated it to 19.2, i’m not sure…but it did

Yesterday gave him a differential of 7.1.

And he played today and got a differential of 13.5


Screenshot couldn’t get the other 2 as they were further down

 

[D-S]

So, do we need to change the thread title to "WHS, it does work!"

If you saw the raft of implementation issues following the 1st April changes with the ISVs and Dot Golf and the interface between them, causing havoc, then certainly not yet. TThe lead up to the change wasn't exactly problem or confusion free either

There are a lot of players playing this weekend with wrong handicaps due to the various glitches - can't remember a scale of errors like this before under WHS or UHS.

 

[Alan Clifford]

Checked out our clubs 4BBB results from yesterday to see if there were any handicap changes from the new rules.

Didn’t take long…first name I picked was a 19 handicapper who won the tournament with his partner. The 19 capper came in on 13 holes.

Handicap got cut from 19.2 to 15.6. Delightful.

That's a difference of 3.6. Say he had eight differentials at 19.2. A 19.2 drops off. ( (7 * 19.2) + this one) /8 = 15.6

This one = 15.6 * 8 /(7 * 19.2) = 0.9 differential. Wow!

 

[IanM]

If it starts to stick it to those who always clean up "when it previously didn't count for handicap," I say "excellent!"

 

[IanM]

There are a lot of players playing this weekend with wrong handicaps due to the various glitches - can't remember a scale of errors like this before under WHS or UHS.

But, Do they know?

There's some odd stuff on my record at the moment, but I've no idea if my HI is wrong.

But I am sure the absence of PCC and proper recording at Castle Stuart cost me a bigger cut

 

[nickjdavis]

Checked out our clubs 4BBB results from yesterday to see if there were any handicap changes from the new rules.

Didn’t take long…first name I picked was a 19 handicapper who won the tournament with his partner. The 19 capper came in on 13 holes.

Handicap got cut from 19.2 to 15.6. Delightful.

Something is amiss.

His worst differential according to those you list was 19.2, that would have been replaced by the 7.1...so the most I'd have expected to see his index reduce by would be 1.5.....and as you say....looking at the listed differentials, there is no way his index was 19.2.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Something is amiss.

His worst differential according to those you list was 19.2, that would have been replaced by the 7.1...so the most I'd have expected to see his index reduce by would be 1.5.....and as you say....looking at the listed differentials there is no way his index was 19.2.

It definitely was, as shown in the screenshot. Wasn’t until I added them all up I was wondering how it was 19.2 to begin with.

 

[Backsticks]

ESR, or whatevet WHS calls similar ?

 

[Tractor Wheal]

ESR, or whatevet WHS calls similar ?

Yep
He has had an ESR of 2 as a result which gets amended to the score and the previous 19 too.
So add 16 to the sum of the 8 SDs shown. Comes to 19.15.

I would be interested to see a screenshot of the score @Wabinez

 

[Swango1980]

17.6
17.2
14.9
18.9
14.7
18.1
16.6
19.2

How the system equated it to 19.2, i’m not sure…but it did

Yesterday gave him a differential of 7.1.

And he played today and got a differential of 13.5

View attachment 53024
Screenshot couldn’t get the other 2 as they were further down

I think the score differentials in the screenshot already include the ESR reduction. Before he shot the great round, they were probably all 2 higher?

 

[Alan Clifford]

That's a difference of 3.6. Say he had eight differentials at 19.2. A 19.2 drops off. ( (7 * 19.2) + this one) /8 = 15.6

This one = 15.6 * 8 /(7 * 19.2) = 0.9 differential. Wow!

Can't do algebra.