WHS doesn't work

[rulefan]

Just because it dosnt happen at yours “it’s a forum myth”
There are enough players on here to prove that’s not true.
So you think we’re lying.?

We have had 6 x59 and a 58 nett par 72 win comps since WHS.
You basically need 46 pts to get in the top three most stablefords.
It’s not just high handicappers either it’s guys who were off middle caps who have got several shots back.

What were those players' handicaps under CONGU?

When you say 'got several shots back' do you mean their index increased and how many is 'several'?
Any change re CONGU handicap and Course Handicap is probably down to Slope of course.

 

[Swango1980]

What were those players' handicaps under CONGU?

When you say 'got several shots back' do you mean their index increased and how many is 'several'?
Any change re CONGU handicap and Course Handicap is probably down to Slope of course.

That will largely be the cause of what people seem to be seeing. Slope is part of WHS of course.

 

[rulefan]

That will largely be the cause of what people seem to be seeing. Slope is part of WHS of course.

A course with a pretty average Slope (125) gives a player about 10% on their CH which reduces to 95% for the competition PH. A 40 Index will get 2 strokes. Gosh

 

[Blob Jacket]

By no rough, do you mean the CR and Slope are now wrong ? If so, then the club is at fault for not rerating it. Thats not the fault of WHS either.

Surely we haven’t adopted a handicap system where every time the rough is grown up or cut down the course rating/slope should be different?

 

[Swango1980]

A course with a pretty average Slope (125) gives a player about 10% on their CH which reduces to 95% for the competition PH. A 40 Index will get 2 strokes. Gosh

So, 45 points becomes 47 points, thus a higher score than pre WHS? Cheers.

And, as it allows quicker increases, it can also allow better scores once a player gets their mojo back.

Many courses have slopes well.over 125 as well. My last course was relatively easy to.people (low CR), slope 133. Current course 141.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think this pretty much sums it up.

The only problem is when players do not have sufficient cards in and their h/c is based on scores from 2-3 years ago, not a good guide of form. That is then up to clubs to manage that internally to keep comps legitimate.

Indeed, why it is that at my place to enter any club competition a member must have 6 scores on their record in the 12 months prior to date of entering.

 

[clubchamp98]

What were those players' handicaps under CONGU?

When you say 'got several shots back' do you mean their index increased and how many is 'several'?
Any change re CONGU handicap and Course Handicap is probably down to Slope of course.

Most got a few shots back.
One guy went from 12 to 19 god knows how.

 

[clubchamp98]

By no rough, do you mean the CR and Slope are now wrong ? If so, then the club is at fault for not rerating it. Thats not the fault of WHS either.

So scores going up is all the clubs fault and NOTHING to do with WHS.
Even though WHS quite clearly gave some golfers a number of shots back.
You might belive that but plenty don’t inc me.

 

[rulefan]

Most got a few shots back.

Are you talking HI or CH

One guy went from 12 to 19 god knows how.

CONGU exact to Handicap Index or Course Handicap ?

 

[clubchamp98]

Are you talking HI or CH


CONGU exact to Handicap Index or Course Handicap ?

We only see the handicap he plays off on the results .
So CH .

 

[Backsticks]

So, 45 points becomes 47 points, thus a higher score than pre WHS? Cheers.

Not so fast. A course with a 125 Slope means the 40 was excessively handicapped by 2 shots in the past comoared to a scratch player. He wouldnt have scored 45. But 43. WHS just restores those two shots his UHC hc deprived him of for the same level of golf in both cases. Giving him a score under WHS of.....45.

 

[Imurg]

Taking Fragger as an example..
His last UHS handicap was 22.4 on 15/10/20 so getting 22 shots
His first WHS Index was 22.5
When you calculate his course handicap, because of our slope being 138 from the Whites, he got 27 shots.
5 more than before for a general play cards and 4 more for a comp.
Within a couple of weeks he'd gone up a shot - so getting 5 or 6 shots more on the same course.
That's how a high handicappers good day of 41/42 points become 46/47 or more.
A number that I would have to shoot 2 or 3 under par gross to match

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Taking Fragger as an example..
His last UHS handicap was 22.4 on 15/10/20 so getting 22 shots
His first WHS Index was 22.5
When you calculate his course handicap, because of our slope being 138 from the Whites, he got 27 shots.
5 more than before for a general play cards and 4 more for a comp.
Within a couple of weeks he'd gone up a shot - so getting 5 or 6 shots more on the same course.
That's how a high handicappers good day of 41/42 points become 46/47 or more.
A number that I would have to shoot 2 or 3 under par gross to match

You making an example of me ?

 

[Imurg]

You making an example of me ?

Yep
But not in a bad way
Highlighting how many extra shots high handicappers got on the changeover and where these big scores can come from
If you'd manipulated your index you could have been getting 8 orm9 extra within a few weeks.
Not that I'd have let you but it wouldn't stop others doing it.

 

[clubchamp98]

Taking Fragger as an example..
His last UHS handicap was 22.4 on 15/10/20 so getting 22 shots
His first WHS Index was 22.5
When you calculate his course handicap, because of our slope being 138 from the Whites, he got 27 shots.
5 more than before for a general play cards and 4 more for a comp.
Within a couple of weeks he'd gone up a shot - so getting 5 or 6 shots more on the same course.
That's how a high handicappers good day of 41/42 points become 46/47 or more.
A number that I would have to shoot 2 or 3 under par gross to match

Someone will be along soon to tell you that’s got nothing to do with WHS.

What about matchplay.
It was already full difference but now the low golfer is giving more shots since WHS.

 

[clubchamp98]

Yep
But not in a bad way
Highlighting how many extra shots high handicappers got on the changeover and where these big scores can come from
If you'd manipulated your index you could have been getting 8 orm9 extra within a few weeks.
Not that I'd have let you but it wouldn't stop others doing it.

Yes but under the old system that wasn’t possible.
But some are in denial and just think because it’s not happening where they are it’s all a myth.

 

[Backsticks]

Taking Fragger as an example..
His last UHS handicap was 22.4 on 15/10/20 so getting 22 shots
His first WHS Index was 22.5
When you calculate his course handicap, because of our slope being 138 from the Whites, he got 27 shots.
5 more than before for a general play cards and 4 more for a comp.
Within a couple of weeks he'd gone up a shot - so getting 5 or 6 shots more on the same course.
That's how a high handicappers good day of 41/42 points become 46/47 or more.
A number that I would have to shoot 2 or 3 under par gross to match

Not really. His 22.4 uhc was a playing 22 shots. Under WHS, he gets 26 shots. An increase of 4. And the 0.1 would have made a difference of a full shot under uhs. So not 5 or 6. And 138 slope is a very tough prospect for a 23 of old. He was giving you extra shots all those years. He deserves a win or two over you now!

 

[Imurg]

Yes but under the old system that wasn’t possible.
But some are in denial and just think because it’s not happening where they are it’s all a myth.

To be fair it's no happened at our place..not to the high 40s extent
There been a few low 40s scores (or equivalent gross ones) but that happened pre whs.
But some clubs are certainly experiencing it.

 

[Imurg]

Not really. His 22.5 uhc was a playing 23 shots. Under WHS, he gets 26 shots. An increase of 3. Not 5 or 6. And 138 slope is a very tough prospect for a 23 of old. He was giving you extra shots all those years. He deserves a win or two over you now!

He was 22.4 UHS....
His 1st WHS was 22.5 ...add the slope...hell, I've already done the maths
If you can't read it.......

 

[clubchamp98]

To be fair it's no happened at our place..not to the high 40s extent
There been a few low 40s scores (or equivalent gross ones) but that happened pre whs.
But some clubs are certainly experiencing it.

At SR 138 that’s probably why.
Ours is 129 and high 40s is becoming what you need to have any chance.
It’s why our comp numbers have fallen imo.