WHS and club competitions

[Swango1980]

Which is why I said that the best thing is to have several competitions with different allowances as none will be fair to all.
The make up to be at the clubs discretion.
There is no contradiction.

So, I become competition secretary at a Club. In my first day, I tell all members:

"Hi guys, I know that you all have different opinions on what handicaps are considered fair, as you don't all agree with WHS. I'm prepared to accept you all have a point, and your opinion is equally valid as the people that actually are employed by WHS and have many years experience in the field. As a result, I am going to randomly use different Allowances in all the club competitions. Sure, of the 50 competitions we run this year, you will all be unhappy in around 40 of them because you don't agree with the Allowance used that day. But for 5-10 competitions, you should be happy then"

Worst competition secretary ever.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Which is why I said that the best thing is to have several competitions with different allowances as none will be fair to all.
The make up to be at the clubs discretion.
There is no contradiction.

IMO clubs should be able to decide how they run their comps but all scores for HI purposes for “singles” comps are from the HI of the person

Any “allowances” the Governing bodies put in should all be “recommended”

 

[Slab]

Maybe its just semantics but I think the WHS comp allowances should be set as ‘defaults’ i.e a bit more than recommended but not as concrete as mandatory

So that a club/committee could change it… but would need to be able record & justify why they’ve made the change each time one is made (probably from a predetermined list of acceptable reasons)

That way both the entrants and gov bodies can see why a change was (believed to be) needed

 

[Swango1980]

If the authorities had embedded the 95% allowance into the course handicap (a bit like Australia), would golfers be more willing to simply play off their course handicap (like they played of their handicap pre WHS). Or would they be moaning and say "clubs should allow players to play off 105%, 90%, 50%, or whatever"? I suspect the above Handicap Allowances are only being questioned because golfers see this as an extra step beyond having a course handicap, they are seeing many different allowances for most comps (except singles match play), and so feel it is unnecessary or less reliable.

Going back to pre WHS times, when handicapping was generally more simple, we still had allowances to consider for 4BBB Match Play. 90% of the difference. Did clubs accept this, or did they all just want to do their own thing? Perhaps the only time I heard moans when it changed from 75% (I think) to 90%, which is to be expected because many hate change. But, I certainly never had any experience of some clubs saying that, for some 4BBB we'll do 90%, others we'll do 75%, others we'll do 100%, etc. And as for other formats of play, the regular golfer never had to worry about Allowances because that was just sorted out on the computer or by the Comp Sec (and you trusted the Comp Sec was doing the right thing)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If the authorities had embedded the 95% allowance into the course handicap (a bit like Australia), would golfers be more willing to simply play off their course handicap (like they played of their handicap pre WHS). Or would they be moaning and say "clubs should allow players to play off 105%, 90%, 50%, or whatever"? I suspect the above Handicap Allowances are only being questioned because golfers see this as an extra step beyond having a course handicap, they are seeing many different allowances for most comps (except singles match play), and so feel it is unnecessary or less reliable.

Going back to pre WHS times, when handicapping was generally more simple, we still had allowances to consider for 4BBB Match Play. 90% of the difference. Did clubs accept this, or did they all just want to do their own thing? Perhaps the only time I heard moans when it changed from 75% (I think) to 90%, which is to be expected because many hate change. But, I certainly never had any experience of some clubs saying that, for some 4BBB we'll do 90%, others we'll do 75%, others we'll do 100%, etc. And as for other formats of play, the regular golfer never had to worry about Allowances because that was just sorted out on the computer or by the Comp Sec (and you trusted the Comp Sec was doing the right thing)

When asked what my handicap is I will generally reply in one of two ways. If they are a golfer I'll quote my HI; if they are not I'll quote my club strokeplay PH. As far as I am concerned my club PH is my handicap in the old sense. My CH is 'something to do' with formats of golf other than my play as an individual - in truth much of the time I will ignore CH. In some ways I am looking at my CH being 105% of my PH (btw - I know it doesn't work that way &.c). In this way I don't lose anything when playing a singles match (when CH is used) - I actually gain something. Siumilary for other formats I gain before the format adjustment % is applied.

 

[Swango1980]

When asked what my handicap is I will generally reply in one of two ways. If they are a golfer I'll quote my HI; if they are not I'll quote my club strokeplay PH. As far as I am concerned my club PH is my handicap in the old sense. My CH is 'something to do' with formats of golf other than my play as an individual - in truth much of the time I will ignore CH. In some ways I am looking at my CH being 105% of my PH (btw - I know it doesn't work that way &.c). In this way I don't lose anything when playing a singles match (when CH is used) - I actually gain something. Siumilary for other formats I gain before the format adjustment % is applied.

I just say my Index. Golfers will know what that means. And non-golfers really don't care. If they ever do ask what my handicap is (because they can't think of a more interesting golf related question), I'll still just give my Index. They definitely wont be interested in Course Handicap conversion, or ask me to go into more detail after I give my Index.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I just say my Index. Golfers will know what that means. And non-golfers really don't care. If they ever do ask what my handicap is (because they can't think of a more interesting golf related question), I'll still just give my Index. They definitely wont be interested in Course Handicap conversion, or ask me to go into more detail after I give my Index.

Golfers know that their handicap index is their handicap. if a non-golfer asks my handicap I have to assume they are interested so I tell them my PH.

 

[AussieKB]

I'm a member at two clubs so handicap is different at both.....
crazy thing is the course they is easy, is actually harder than the other one.

 

[clubchamp98]

Golfers know that their handicap index is their handicap. if a non-golfer asks my handicap I have to assume they are interested so I tell them my PH.

So you’re sitting in a bar !
On your left a non golfer ask you say I’m off 7
On your right a golfer asks you say 5.6

Then the non golfer says “ he’s just told me something different “

I have never known an improvement to a system that made it harder to understand !

 

[Slab]

When asked what my handicap is I will generally reply in one of two ways. If they are a golfer I'll quote my HI; if they are not I'll quote my club strokeplay PH. As far as I am concerned my club PH is my handicap in the old sense. My CH is 'something to do' with formats of golf other than my play as an individual - in truth much of the time I will ignore CH. In some ways I am looking at my CH being 105% of my PH (btw - I know it doesn't work that way &.c). In this way I don't lose anything when playing a singles match (when CH is used) - I actually gain something. Siumilary for other formats I gain before the format adjustment % is applied.

Do you get asked this often then?

Pretty rare for me. Usually just the other folks on the 1st tee in a comp round

 

[Orikoru]

So you’re sitting in a bar !
On your left a non golfer ask you say I’m off 7
On your right a golfer asks you say 5.6

Then the non golfer says “ he’s just told me something different “

I have never known an improvement to a system that made it harder to understand !

Yeah, that's nonsense, I would just tell them the index number since that number doesn't vary depending on what course you're at. If it's a non-golfer I'd just leave the decimal off and round it to the nearest whole number, if they are a golfer I'd include the decimal. Non-golfers don't tend to ask what your handicap is though do they? Wouldn't mean much to them. More likely to just say "are you any good? how many holes in one have you got?"

 

[Swango1980]

Yeah, that's nonsense, I would just tell them the index number since that number doesn't vary depending on what course you're at. If it's a non-golfer I'd just leave the decimal off and round it to the nearest whole number, if they are a golfer I'd include the decimal. Non-golfers don't tend to ask what your handicap is though do they? Wouldn't mean much to them. More likely to just say "are you any good? how many holes in one have you got?"

I guess it depends on your ego, and how you want to boast about your handicap.

If you play a really really easy course, you may be inclined to say your Course Handicap (or even Playing Handicap) that you had when playing off yellows. If you play a really really tough course, you may say your Index. Or even mentioned the handicap you played off the one time you went and played the really easy course.

My Index is 10.3, and off the back tees at my course, my handicap CH is 13. However, if I wanted to show off (which I don't), if someone asked I could just say my handicap is 7. That is what I'd be off if I played off the red tees.

 

[clubchamp98]

Under UHS you had one handicap not a choice.

 

[Orikoru]

I guess it depends on your ego, and how you want to boast about your handicap.

If you play a really really easy course, you may be inclined to say your Course Handicap (or even Playing Handicap) that you had when playing off yellows. If you play a really really tough course, you may say your Index. Or even mentioned the handicap you played off the one time you went and played the really easy course.

My Index is 10.3, and off the back tees at my course, my handicap CH is 13. However, if I wanted to show off (which I don't), if someone asked I could just say my handicap is 7. That is what I'd be off if I played off the red tees.

Jeez, if you're that bothered just tell them an outright lie and say you're off scratch or whatever makes you feel good. It's not that deep.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I guess it depends on your ego, and how you want to boast about your handicap.

If you play a really really easy course, you may be inclined to say your Course Handicap (or even Playing Handicap) that you had when playing off yellows. If you play a really really tough course, you may say your Index. Or even mentioned the handicap you played off the one time you went and played the really easy course.

My Index is 10.3, and off the back tees at my course, my handicap CH is 13. However, if I wanted to show off (which I don't), if someone asked I could just say my handicap is 7. That is what I'd be off if I played off the red tees.

Just tell them your index and rounded down

 

[D-S]

When asked what my handicap is I will generally reply in one of two ways. If they are a golfer I'll quote my HI; if they are not I'll quote my club strokeplay PH. As far as I am concerned my club PH is my handicap in the old sense. My CH is 'something to do' with formats of golf other than my play as an individual - in truth much of the time I will ignore CH. In some ways I am looking at my CH being 105% of my PH (btw - I know it doesn't work that way &.c). In this way I don't lose anything when playing a singles match (when CH is used) - I actually gain something. Siumilary for other formats I gain before the format adjustment % is applied.

So when you say PH do you say which tee set as well?

Would I have to say 9 or 8 or 7 or 5 or 2 instead of 6 which is my HI? - doesn’t seem that simple for a non golfer.

 

[LincolnShep]

Under UHS you had one handicap not a choice.

Good point. That was UHS's biggest weakness. Thank goodness that handicaps now adapt to course difficulty.

 

[Neilds]

Golfers know that their handicap index is their handicap. if a non-golfer asks my handicap I have to assume they are interested so I tell them my PH.

They’re so not interested. They are just making conversation and will have forgotten in 5 minutes.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

Your handicap is your handicap, which is your Index, all the others are what shots you get on different courses or in particular competitions and they are not your handicap

 

[Voyager EMH]

"Four, five or six, depending on the weather and whether there's an R in the month."