WHS and club competitions
- Thread starter Springveldt
- Start date
AussieKB
Well-known member
I know they did....but not sure if it is right.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
I think not.
Once a result is published that’s it!
That’s my understanding of golf and how most other sports work ,conditions of competition are set before the start.
Only cheating found later should change the result.
woofers
Medal Winner
England Golf state that the current handicap allowances for competitions are mandatory.
The Seniors section have run some singles strokeplay competitions with 100% allowance. They argue it only affects the competition scores, any handicap adjustments will be consistent regardless of competition handicap allowances.
I am aware of another club running a team Open competition, best 3 of 4, played with 100% allowance (max 24 h’cap).
Some sections or clubs are therefore casually implementing the “Ireland trial” and the England Golf mandatory instruction is being ignored and appears unenforceable anyway.
Should the Club Handicap Committee insist that the mandatory allowances are applied?
The Seniors section have run some singles strokeplay competitions with 100% allowance. They argue it only affects the competition scores, any handicap adjustments will be consistent regardless of competition handicap allowances.
I am aware of another club running a team Open competition, best 3 of 4, played with 100% allowance (max 24 h’cap).
Some sections or clubs are therefore casually implementing the “Ireland trial” and the England Golf mandatory instruction is being ignored and appears unenforceable anyway.
Should the Club Handicap Committee insist that the mandatory allowances are applied?
wjemather
Well-known member
But 100% is the WHS recommended (mandatory in GB&I) allowance for best 3 from 4.
Yes, handicap committees should ensure all club organised competitions use the recommended (mandatory in GB&I, trial aside) allowances.
rulie
Head Pro
Could you please explain the England Golf logic behind mandating the use of these allowances instead of leaving them as recommendations? As far as I understand, clubs using different allowances for their own competitions doesn't compromise the handicapping system. It's only the adjusted gross scores that are used for calculating differentials.
woofers
Medal Winner
My apologies, I was mistaken and confused it with best 2 from 4, (85%).
D-S
Well-known member
I’m not sure, they used to mandate certain allowances pre WHS but since the introduction they added mandatory Texas Scramble allowances but not 3 ball Scramble, they also don’t mandate 2 out of 3 Bowmaker which is quite a common format but do mandate 1 out of 4 Par/Bogey which I have never seen played.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Presumably to help avoid inconsistencies, and cause even more confusion amongst golfers?
I suppose if clubs could do as they please, then you could have all sorts of inconsistencies. Decisions often made by one person. One may be completely behind WHS, and follow every guideline to the tee. Another may hate WHS, firmly believe they know what is better for their members, and do as they please. Of course, when making such decisions, it is easy for this person to convince themselves it is better for their members, when that is what they keep telling themselves over time, and maybe trying to convince those closest to them. But, I bet the decision never goes out for a vote, and inevitably if they do something different to the manual, it will favour some golfers over others. In a club of hundreds of members, they'll end up disadvantaging and probably annoying at least some golfers.
So, if you are an affiliated club, it would make sense that the non-negotiables are stuck to. Clearly the handicap authorities believe that the Playing Allowances allow equitable competition. It is why they are there after all. So, to permit clubs to just do as they please would almost be like admitting "the allowances are just a final tweak, but they are not overly important, so you are free to do as you please"
wjemather
Well-known member
Mandatory allowances pre-date WHS in GB&I (I think Ireland may have been first to mandate, and England last) and were brought in to bring consistency and fairness. The allowances were previously only recommendations and while many club followed them, many didn't, resulting in an unfathomable mess, and arguments on the first tee - not to mention players being grossly disadvantaged by rotten allowances at some clubs.
NearHull
Well-known member
The allowances are mandated. Clubs cannot choose their own allowances as they will disadvantage some players. A few years ago I entered a 4 BBB Open at a well known ( Ryder Cup) York club. It was administered by the Senior Section who stated PH was was to be 100% of CH. I pointed out that this was incorrect and a significant disadvantage to lower handicap players, their response was that the Seniors don’t like playing to reduced handicaps ( meaning 85%).
I reported them to the County.
I reported them to the County.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Can someone point me to where EG make the allowances mandatory? I'm not disputing it bur seem to have lost the reference.
wjemather
Well-known member
It's in Golf GB&I's guidance on the WHS RoH:
If you meant when did they make allowances mandatory under UHS, I'll see if I can fish it out.
wjemather
Well-known member
From what I've seen, senior sections are by far the most common offenders in this regard.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Did they also explain that the lower handicapped Seniors at his club must be idiots, because if they didn't like playing off reduced handicaps, did they not realise that playing off higher handicaps, the higher handicapped Seniors where getting an even bigger margin in their handicap!?
When it comes out in the wash, what the guy really meant was that some of the higher handicap players probably moaned, and so for an easy life he just used 100% to appease them. Or maybe the person running the Senior Section was a higher handicap themselves. It is easier to try and blame everyone at the club when trying to justify a dodgy decision that you ultimately made.
Swango1980
Well-known member
When I first joined my Committee (about 2010ish), I found out all sorts of fascinating things the Seniors did. One of them had access to the system, so without the Club Handicap Sec knowing, he would just go in and chop the handicaps of people he knew. One of his rules was that, if you won a comp, you automatically get an extra shot cut off. The Club Handicap Sec was sick and tired of them, but didn't really do much.
When I became handicap sec, I only agreed to do so as long as they didn't have access to the system, and any cuts had to be discussed with me. At my first handicap review, a 28 handicapper had won his first ever comp with 35 points during the season (only about 5 people in Div 2 of the comp). At the review, the Senior mentioned his name, and said he should automatically be cut 2 shots because he won a comp. My response was along the lines of "Get Out!!" (I'm much more diplomatic, but that is what I was saying in my head)
IanM
Journeyman Pro
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What happened as a result? I reported something to the County this year and absolutely nothing happened.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Did you follow it up?What happened as a result? I reported something to the County this year and absolutely nothing happened.
Pargolfer1
New member
My history, I was once many years ago the club competition sec for my club
At the time I was playing off 14 and had many arguments regarding players
and their handicaps.
I cannot see the point of WHS if clubs do not apply their results.
I can see why this is done, because without exception most
committees are run by mid to low handicap players.
They object to a low high handicap play acutally winning.
So their answer is to play off a maximum of 28 and then 95% of that.
It's the same as horse racing, load the horse with enough weghts
it can't win.
I personnaly think, that a high handicap player, will not enter except for
the fun of it. If however, they do a blinder, so what? They are immediately
cut and the rest of us might mutter but must accept the result. How often does that happen?
No one says anything, when a low handicapper comes in with 45 points and that does
happen.
So let's forget the protectionist and play a fair game, no bending the rules to suit.
At the time I was playing off 14 and had many arguments regarding players
and their handicaps.
I cannot see the point of WHS if clubs do not apply their results.
I can see why this is done, because without exception most
committees are run by mid to low handicap players.
They object to a low high handicap play acutally winning.
So their answer is to play off a maximum of 28 and then 95% of that.
It's the same as horse racing, load the horse with enough weghts
it can't win.
I personnaly think, that a high handicap player, will not enter except for
the fun of it. If however, they do a blinder, so what? They are immediately
cut and the rest of us might mutter but must accept the result. How often does that happen?
No one says anything, when a low handicapper comes in with 45 points and that does
happen.
So let's forget the protectionist and play a fair game, no bending the rules to suit.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Umm what 
Are you complaining about high handicaps having to play of 95% and losing shots ?
Are you complaining about high handicaps having to play of 95% and losing shots ?
