WHS - Acceptable Scores

[Swango1980]

I saw some chat on this on one thread, but there are so many, no idea which one.

I've been reading the WHS Advice for clubs. It basically says that any scores from "organized competitions" are acceptable, and goes on to strongly imply that players who play in regular informal competitions like roll ups and society's have a responsibility to return their scores The exact wording is:

WHS requires that rounds in ‘organized competitions’ in an acceptable format are considered to have been pre-registered. This raises the question as to what comprises an ‘organized competition’? The term is broader than would previously have been considered by most clubs and players. Under WHS, for example, regular informal competitions, often organized as roll-ups or society events, would now fall into this category. Players have a responsibility to ensure that their scores from such events are returned to their home clubs.

At my club, the Seniors play informal swindles twice a week, and I know of at least one group of players (about a dozen) who go out on a Sunday morning as a Society and have their own bespoke handicap system for themselves. I'm sure most clubs have the same thing going on. I honestly can't see that many of these players will start formally submitting scores under WHS (given that they don't bother submitting them as supplementary scores now).

So, if players do not adhere to this NEW responsibility, what should be done? I really have no desire in disciplining golfers for not handing in their scores, I'm not even going to be aware of how many play in "organised competitions" between themselves anyway. So, if they wish to pre-register and submit score, no problem. But, if not, can the Handicap Committee be criticised for not taking action???

 

[rulefan]

I honestly can't see that many of these players will start formally submitting scores under WHS (given that they don't bother submitting them as supplementary scores now).

The difference with supps is that with 'organised' single medal/s'ford rollups etc, there is no need to pre-register and with increase use of apps, recording scores will take no extra effort. Supps are an effort.

But my impression is that a high proportion of 'organised' games are variations on BB.
But I do think is will take some time to be absorbed into normal club play. I think the urge will come from the groups themselves. Those who only play a few (or no) comps by choice aren't going to enter more. Those who are keen to get their cap down will tale the idea on sooner.

 

[jim8flog]

One of the important things is that such rounds must be played in accordance with The Rules of Golf.

Every swindle/roll up I play in has gimmes.

I did bring up this topic in our Saturday crowd and we had a brief discussion about always putting out but everybody was left to think about it for the time being.

There are some that do not get the opportunity to play many comps who liked the idea.

 

[Swango1980]

The difference with supps is that with 'organised' single medal/s'ford rollups etc, there is no need to pre-register and with increase use of apps, recording scores will take no extra effort. Supps are an effort.

But my impression is that a high proportion of 'organised' games are variations on BB.
But I do think is will take some time to be absorbed into normal club play. I think the urge will come from the groups themselves. Those who only play a few (or no) comps by choice aren't going to enter more. Those who are keen to get their cap down will tale the idea on sooner.

Are "organised competitions" those specifically arranged by a club? Or, is it something that is regularly arranged amongst members themselves (which roll ups often are)?

If the latter, then presumably members would need to pre register anyway, just like they would for a general score? Otherwise, they'd surely need to get club to set it up as a competition, so that their signing in is automatically pre registering

 

[rulefan]

Are "organised competitions" those specifically arranged by a club? Or, is it something that is regularly arranged amongst members themselves (which roll ups often are)?

The latter but approved by the club

Otherwise, they'd surely need to get club to set it up as a competition, so that their signing in is automatically pre registering

That is how I see it. But a 'group' member may be given the facility to set the competition up and close it.

 

[Old Skier]

As there are so many cross over threads I’ll post this from an email from EG


How to submit a score?

After the completion of a competition round, a player has to submit their scorecard as soon as possible in order for their Handicap Index to be updated. Preferably, scores should be posted at the venue being played and on the same day, as this will be when a player’s Handicap Index will be updated. If this is not possible, players may post scores utilising the technology available at their golf club.


How to verify a score?

In order to verify a score and for it to count towards a player’s WHS index, some basic rules should be followed:

• Play in accordance with The Rules of Golf
• Use an authorised format of play
• Play nine holes to post a 9-hole score
• Play at least 10 holes to post an 18-hole score
• Play with at least one other person
• Play on a course with a current Course Rating and Slope Rating

How your score counts towards the WHS?

Acceptable formats of play for submitting a score towards a player’s Handicap Index include any pre-registered general play ‘social’ scores and all individual competition rounds, both 9 and 18 holes, whether played at home or away courses. Non-acceptable formats of play include a player’s individual score from fourball better ball or other match play events.

 

[Swango1980]

I assume clubs can still set a competition to non-qualifier, or whatever terminology WHS will use?

 

[Old Skier]

I assume clubs can still set a competition to non-qualifier, or whatever terminology WHS will use?

Clubs shouldn’t have been setting comps as NQ unless certain criteria couldn’t be met. As there appears to be clubs who do what they want anyway, judging by some comments on the forum , who’s going to stop them but if they are played as per #6 No.

 

[Swango1980]

Clubs shouldn’t have been setting comps as NQ unless certain criteria couldn’t be met. As there appears to be clubs who do what they want anyway, judging by some comments on the forum , who’s going to stop them but if they are played as per #6 No.

I appreciate this. But, for running comps like 3 club or mulligan, they'd need to be set as non qualifer or non acceptable.

So, there probably is no change at all from CONGU. After all, CONGU as you say wants clubs to run qualifiers wherever possible. But, some clubs don't, and therefore may continue. So, as far as getting roll ups and societies to officially post their scores, I wonder why there is any more need for them to do so under WHS compared to CONGU? I'd imagine most will keep it simple and not post them at all.

 

[rulefan]

But, for running comps like 3 club or mulligan, they'd need to be set as non qualifer or non acceptable.

They would not be acceptable as they contravene the Rules of Golf.

 

[rulefan]

I appreciate this. But, for running comps like 3 club or mulligan, they'd need to be set as non qualifer or non acceptable.

So, there probably is no change at all from CONGU. After all, CONGU as you say wants clubs to run qualifiers wherever possible. But, some clubs don't, and therefore may continue. So, as far as getting roll ups and societies to officially post their scores, I wonder why there is any more need for them to do so under WHS compared to CONGU? I'd imagine most will keep it simple and not post them at all.

I think Rules 1.3(i) and 1.3(ii) together with the definition of 'Acceptable Score' make a club's obligations clear.

 

[Swango1980]

They would not be acceptable as they contravene the Rules of Golf.

I know, which is why the club would need to set that up correctly on system

 

[Leftie]

How to submit a score?

Non-acceptable formats of play include a player’s individual score from fourball better ball or other match play events.

Most of our group's social golf is 4BBB match play taking shots of the lowest H/C as usual. Sometimes however, for a change, we play 4BBB off our H/Caps so a better nett S/Ford score wins the hole. Provided that a player's round has been pre-registered and he/she putts out, would that be acceptable for a supplementary?

It's quite a good format for a change and completely changes the dynamics of shots on holes.

 

[rulefan]

Most of our group's social golf is 4BBB match play taking shots of the lowest H/C as usual. Sometimes however, for a change, we play 4BBB off our H/Caps so a better nett S/Ford score wins the hole. Provided that a player's round has been pre-registered and he/she putts out, would that be acceptable for a supplementary?

The rules do not specifically permit or prohibit it. But I was/am still awaiting clarification.

But a Committee may give special dispensation for a singles match to qualify. But I have strong reservations about the question of advice in this case.

 

[Leftie]

OK thanks. Would be interested in the clarification.

 

[rulefan]

OK thanks. Would be interested in the clarification.

So will I

 

[Old Skier]

Our conditions of entry prohibit playing one completion within another, whether this would be the same within a friendly knockabout would be an interesting question but there again if it’s a supplementary who would know,