What Rees Mogg really thinks of common people

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In answer to your question. Yes. Without any other knowledge, if I was in a building that was on fire, I would try to get out. Obviously not towards flames, but towards the nearest exit. Just like you would be asked to do in any fire drill at work for example. Of course, with the guidance in that building, I would then follow the stay put advice, assuming that the building will protect the fire from spreading. That's what the professionals thought would be the case, and I'd therefore put my trust in them rather than my own common sense.

Which you might well do if there were no Fire and Rescue services there to advise you - besides - Rees-Mogg was talking specifically about the residents of Grenfell Tower and that fire - not some hypothetical general situation.

 

[Swango1980]

Really, you’re going to run towards the flames with your wife and family through pitch black smoke, risking blocking stairwells or stopping the Fireman reaching the Fire.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, I’m sure we’d all run now we know the facts, those people didn’t and trusted what they were being told.

To make that statement prior to Part 2 of the report coming out is insensitive, your basically insulting the intelligence of those that died and putting blame on the telephone operators and Firemen, which in itself you should hang your head in shame.

And this had nothing to do with mogg, it would feel the same if anyone made that statement, him or the man in a pub, the biggest difference is that politicians are in the Public Domain and need to think before they speak.

Also, I have not read the report, but I think I heard that the stay put advice should have been disregarded much earlier, and that had people then tried to escape, there would have been fewer casualties. Now, I'm not sure if that is true, so if not than you can disregard the statement. But, if the report did say this, then would it not suggest that there would have been less casualties if more left the building rather than stay in the building.

Again, I stress that I know that this is not the resident fault. They did exactly the right thing, and followed the advice by the professionals. I do agree that WAS the common sense thing to do based on the information they had.

 

[rudebhoy]

Maybe the interviewer should have asked him about the people who did try to leave and were found dead on the stairwell from smoke inhalation.

The sad fact is the folk on the upper floors had very little chance of surviving, whether they tried to escape, or followed the advice to stay put.

It absolutely sickens me that the likes of Rees Mogg are trying to put the blame on the fire service, instead of the real villains who took the decision to wrap the tower block in a flammable rag.

 

[MegaSteve]

If JR-M didn't say anything out of order why are he, his mucker and Cleverly all apologising?

 

[Swango1980]

If JR-M didn't say anything out of order why are he, his mucker and Cleverly all apologising?

That's what people need to do nowadays, no matter what "side" you are on. Make a statement, find out that many people twist the context to make it sound you meant something you didn't, then apologise that people took it the wrong way and then try and caveat what you really meant.

And just to clarify. I'm not a fan of him in any way, I'm on the opposite side of the Brexit debate to him, and I'm sure he is a stuck up so and so. Had he directly said that the residents lacked common sense, and that had be been in exactly their position he would have been OK as he would have fled, then I would be equally as critical as the likes of Stormzy. But, from the BBC article and quotes, where I read about it, it did not appear like he said that at all, and so it can only be assumed if you try and read between the lines.

Maybe privately he does indeed believe that he does have more common sense than the rest of us, but I doubt I could prove it from that interview.

Just my opinion of course, and I do understand the negative reactions he gets, so it doesn't take too much for him to stir something up, whether it's intentional or not.

 

[patricks148]

Maybe the interviewer should have asked him about the people who did try to leave and were found dead on the stairwell from smoke inhalation.

The sad fact is the folk on the upper floors had very little chance of surviving, whether they tried to escape, or followed the advice to stay put.

It absolutely sickens me that the likes of Rees Mogg are trying to put the blame on the fire service, instead of the real villains who took the decision to wrap the tower block in a flammable rag.

totally agree, funny how TLFS are being scapegoated, when we know full well it was the Council who chose to install the cladding that is the real problem... anyone would think they are trying to deflect the blame away from the Tory Run council

 

[Deleted member 16999]

That's what people need to do nowadays, no matter what "side" you are on. Make a statement, find out that many people twist the context to make it sound you meant something you didn't, then apologise that people took it the wrong way and then try and caveat what you really meant.

And just to clarify. I'm not a fan of him in any way, I'm on the opposite side of the Brexit debate to him, and I'm sure he is a stuck up so and so. Had he directly said that the residents lacked common sense, and that had be been in exactly their position he would have been OK as he would have fled, then I would be equally as critical as the likes of Stormzy. But, from the BBC article and quotes, where I read about it, it did not appear like he said that at all, and so it can only be assumed if you try and read between the lines.

Maybe privately he does indeed believe that he does have more common sense than the rest of us, but I doubt I could prove it from that interview.

Just my opinion of course, and I do understand the negative reactions he gets, so it doesn't take too much for him to stir something up, whether it's intentional or not.

No it’s not what people have to do these days, it’s only those that speak without thinking, he’s in a position of influence, an intelligent man.

It’s always the excuse that it’s easy to shift the blame and twist words, how about these people just accept they were in the wrong and accept responsibility without any caveats.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

totally agree, funny how TLFS are being scapegoated, when we know full well it was the Council who chose to install the cladding that is the real problem... anyone would think they are trying to deflect the blame away from the Tory Run council

Tbh, politics should be kept out of it, people died and the full report is not out yet.
Maybe he should of declined to comment until ALL the facts are known.

 

[ColchesterFC]

totally agree, funny how TLFS are being scapegoated, when we know full well it was the Council who chose to install the cladding that is the real problem... anyone would think they are trying to deflect the blame away from the Tory Run council

Was it a Tory run council when the tower block was built? Or when the cladding was added (if it was retrofitted)? I'm not trying to deflect with those questions I genuinely don't know.

Whoever was in charge at the time deserves to share the blame with whoever decided that cladding of that type could be used on buildings. IMO there should be no blame on the fire brigade or the residents at all.

 

[Swango1980]

Tbh, politics should be kept out of it, people died and the full report is not out yet.
Maybe he should of declined to comment until ALL the facts are known.

Maybe. Had he declined to comment though, I bet there would be a lot of people accusing him of shying away from important issues, and not being in touch with the people. At the end of the day, there will be a set of people who hate him, who would never agree with anything he says, regardless of what it is. On the other side, there will be people who love him who would never be critical of anything he ever says, no matter what nonsense he spouts. No doubt it has always been this way, the difference being we're having these debates on social media with no boundaries, not down the pub or over dinner with your family.

Makes me glad I'm not a politician

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Maybe. Had he declined to comment though, I bet there would be a lot of people accusing him of shying away from important issues, and not being in touch with the people. At the end of the day, there will be a set of people who hate him, who would never agree with anything he says, regardless of what it is. On the other side, there will be people who love him who would never be critical of anything he ever says, no matter what nonsense he spouts. No doubt it has always been this way, the difference being we're having these debates on social media with no boundaries, not down the pub or over dinner with your family.

Makes me glad I'm not a politician

Take the personality out of it, it would be wrong for anyone to say what he did.

 

[patricks148]

Was it a Tory run council when the tower block was built? Or when the cladding was added (if it was retrofitted)? I'm not trying to deflect with those questions I genuinely don't know.

Whoever was in charge at the time deserves to share the blame with whoever decided that cladding of that type could be used on buildings. IMO there should be no blame on the fire brigade or the residents at all.

I'm glad you asked that

K&C has been Tory since 1964 and Grenfell was built in in 1972.

 

[Swango1980]

Going back to my previous point, it depends on their context.

If they were simply trying to make the point that, in their opinion, they felt more would have survived had people left as soon as they could, rather than stay put. Then I wouldn't villify them for that point, even if I disagreed. It is an innocent point of view. Especially, as I mentioned before, I believe one of these reports actually suggested the stay put advice should have been abandoned much earlier.

If they were trying to make the point that they would have followed common sense, probably because they feel they are more intelligent than the residents, and therefore would have been better off, then of course, not only would I disagree with them, but I would mock them. And, if they said it publicly, when they are in a position that represents the people, then of course they should be shot down.

Yes, as a politician, he should be much much better at not getting himself in a pickle with words. And I've not actually heard the interview, just read it, so maybe I am missing something in the context in which he expressed himself, which makes it obvious that he was trying to explain he is much more intelligent that the residents.

 

[ColchesterFC]

I'm glad you asked that

K&C has been Tory since 1964 and Grenfell was built in in 1972.

Thanks. Then it's either the Tory council at the time it was built or when the cladding was fitted that should take some of the blame. Along with whoever decided it was ok to use this type of cladding.

 

[MegaSteve]

That's what people need to do nowadays, no matter what "side" you are on. Make a statement, find out that many people twist the context to make it sound you meant something you didn't, then apologise that people took it the wrong way and then try and caveat what you really meant.

And just to clarify. I'm not a fan of him in any way, I'm on the opposite side of the Brexit debate to him, and I'm sure he is a stuck up so and so. Had he directly said that the residents lacked common sense, and that had be been in exactly their position he would have been OK as he would have fled, then I would be equally as critical as the likes of Stormzy. But, from the BBC article and quotes, where I read about it, it did not appear like he said that at all, and so it can only be assumed if you try and read between the lines.

Maybe privately he does indeed believe that he does have more common sense than the rest of us, but I doubt I could prove it from that interview.

Just my opinion of course, and I do understand the negative reactions he gets, so it doesn't take too much for him to stir something up, whether it's intentional or not.

You have to wonder though, which part of the electorate he was hoping to appeal to with any comments related to the deaths of 74 innocents....

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Thanks. Then it's either the Tory council at the time it was built or when the cladding was fitted that should take some of the blame. Along with whoever decided it was ok to use this type of cladding.

I believe the second part of the enquiry covers this. The building failed in a number of areas, making all subsequent decisions a lottery.

Not sure why the enquiry has stopped and was split in two. Seems odd although I presume there is a good reason. The quicker it reports the better so improvements can be made.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Maybe. Had he declined to comment though, I bet there would be a lot of people accusing him of shying away from important issues, and not being in touch with the people. At the end of the day, there will be a set of people who hate him, who would never agree with anything he says, regardless of what it is. On the other side, there will be people who love him who would never be critical of anything he ever says, no matter what nonsense he spouts. No doubt it has always been this way, the difference being we're having these debates on social media with no boundaries, not down the pub or over dinner with your family.

Makes me glad I'm not a politician

If he doesn't want to be asked difficult questions he shouldn't be pushing himself forward to go on Nick Ferrari's morning programme on LBC as much as he does - Ferrari being a presenter who he knows will not give him too hard a time and who is very sympathetic to the Brexit-Leave and Conservative message - as is much of the audience of that programme. I suspect Rees-Mogg felt so comfortable with the interviewer and the audience he knew was listening that he slipped a bit too far into speaking his mind.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Well it seems that he thinks that the Common People residents of Grenfell Tower should have used their common sense and ignored what they were being told by the Fire Fighters. Baffling/Inexplicable/Inexcusable comments? From a Cabinet Minister...

Maybe he just hasn't a clue about tower blocks...maybe he's never been vulnerable and had to rely upon the advice of the emergency services in a difficult or dangerous situation...maybe he hasn't read the report just released and the horrendous conditions in the tower and the single stairwell - dunno.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/special...ell-survivors-demand-apology-jacob-rees-mogg/

Slightly going away from JRM, but if in bold above is true, and I would think it were true, then I'm at a loss to see how the Fire Brigade were criticised for their advice re stay put.
I am dismayed at the enquiry's findings against the FB. They had every right to think that the cladding would not have assisted the fire , let alone behaved as a wick and fuel. And in that knowledge, surely their advice was right.?The fire would have been manageable if the cladding was of proper standard, would it not?
To have invited evacuation ,because there was a fire ,so that all the residents would have poured into the single stairwell, no doubt cluttered with all sorts, and with a very high risk of panic, could/would have been disastrous.
Then, when the hindsight experts hold their enquiry, these same people would want to know of the FB why they went against their normal advice to stay put.

IMO, the FB is being hung out to dry on this. High emotions arising from a terrible tragedy is clouding judgement of what dedicated emergency services were trying their best to deal with, as they understood the situation to be at the time.
Hindsight is no help in these quests to find the truth.

 

[MegaSteve]

I believe the second part of the enquiry covers this. The building failed in a number of areas, making all subsequent decisions a lottery.

Not sure why the enquiry has stopped and was split in two. Seems odd although I presume there is a good reason. The quicker it reports the better so improvements can be made.

Heard it said they've completed their findings the wrong way round...

 

[Swango1980]

Slightly going away from JRM, but if in bold above is true, and I would think it were true, then I'm at a loss to see how the Fire Brigade were criticised for their advice re stay put.
I am dismayed at the enquiry's findings against the FB. They had every right to think that the cladding would not have assisted the fire , let alone behaved as a wick and fuel. And in that knowledge, surely their advice was right.?The fire would have been manageable if the cladding was of proper standard, would it not?
To have invited evacuation ,because there was a fire ,so that all the residents would have poured into the single stairwell, no doubt cluttered with all sorts, and with a very high risk of panic, could/would have been disastrous.
Then, when the hindsight experts hold their enquiry, these same people would want to know of the FB why they went against their normal advice to stay put.

IMO, the FB is being hung out to dry on this. High emotions arising from a terrible tragedy is clouding judgement of what dedicated emergency services were trying their best to deal with, as they understood the situation to be at the time.
Hindsight is no help in these quests to find the truth.

Was the criticism of the FB directed more to the comments of the fire chief after the event rather than how they acted at the time. I heard that the fire chief, after the event, said they would do the exact same thing again. Although that would be true, based on the info they had before the fire, the comments were deemed insensitive and indicated the FB may not learn from the event.

Of course, if their actions at the time have also been criticised, I also find it hard to understand as that was the protocol they had, which made sense if they thought the fire wouldn't spread. The bigger blame is to those that knew the cladding was a fire risk, yet failed to remove it asap or at least warn the FB of its danger.