PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Reading the OP again the original quote says needs between 2-3 days to complete
The guy took 2 days even though he didn’t work much the Monday
Got to pay the price !
What is the Forum’s view?
- Thread starter PhilTheFragger
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Reading the OP again the original quote says needs between 2-3 days to complete
The guy took 2 days even though he didn’t work much the Monday
Got to pay the price !
I remember a post on here from a few years ago. The poster was an electrician, the story may be apocryphal.
Poster quoted for a job, approx £50. Customer went for a younger competitor, approx £30. The other electrician made a poor job of it and the poster was brought back in. He did the job in 10 minutes. The customer grumbled, '£50 for 10 minutes, that's not right'.
"You are not paying for 10 minutes, you are paying for 20 years of training and experience that enabled me to do it in 10 minutes"
Whether true or not not it's a good story about the skills of a tradesman.
I don't fixate on an hourly rate. The key is the job rate. The person doing it can then take longer or shorter, up to them, but the price remains the same. You know where you stand.
Poster quoted for a job, approx £50. Customer went for a younger competitor, approx £30. The other electrician made a poor job of it and the poster was brought back in. He did the job in 10 minutes. The customer grumbled, '£50 for 10 minutes, that's not right'.
"You are not paying for 10 minutes, you are paying for 20 years of training and experience that enabled me to do it in 10 minutes"
Whether true or not not it's a good story about the skills of a tradesman.
I don't fixate on an hourly rate. The key is the job rate. The person doing it can then take longer or shorter, up to them, but the price remains the same. You know where you stand.
hors limite
Assistant Pro
I just wonder if you are comparing apples and pears. If the guy is doing regular maintenance for your mum, it's going to characterised as " gentle gardening" - grass cutting, lawn edging and hoeing, that sort of thing. Conversely, " a lot of ground clearance" is bloody hard physical work. Would you charge the same hourly rate for two very different types of work? The mistake he made was to tell you how long he thought it would take.
Maninblack4612
Tour Winner
Having been self employed myself for the last 16 years I'm sympathetic about the way some people treat self employed folks. Your attitude stinks. The mistake the gardener made was telling you how long he thought the job would take. His hourly rate has nothing to do with it, you didn't employ him on an hourly basis. Haggling over the price was completely unjustified & you should be ashamed of yourself. I bet you'll never persuade him to work for you again. If I were in his shoes I wouldn't.
You've let yourself down not paying the agreed price.
Do the right thing and pay the man what he is due.
Do the right thing and pay the man what he is due.
Khamelion
Tour Winner
Pay what you agreed before the start of the job.
I do not know civil law at all, but I would guess if you continue to refuse to pay him, it'll end up in small claims court where he'll stand a very good chance of winning and you'll be out of pocket way more than the price you agreed for your garden to be weed free.
Also if the gardener is petty minded, there's a very good chance he'll come up with some excuse not to continue working on your mams garden.
You then lose all round. Well to be fair you have lost already by refusing to pay the man, thought you were better than that.
I do not know civil law at all, but I would guess if you continue to refuse to pay him, it'll end up in small claims court where he'll stand a very good chance of winning and you'll be out of pocket way more than the price you agreed for your garden to be weed free.
Also if the gardener is petty minded, there's a very good chance he'll come up with some excuse not to continue working on your mams garden.
You then lose all round. Well to be fair you have lost already by refusing to pay the man, thought you were better than that.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
I'm more on the side of the gardener too but I think you're going a little OTT there
Plenty on here scream refund/compensation etc etc while faking the horrors of their parcel being a bit late or whatever, so haggling once transaction results are known etc is not new to this forum
The OP had in his head a 3 day job, it look less than half that so providing it was done civilly its not wrong for him to question other parts of the quote (like the price) A decent self employed person would be comfortable in justifying why it stays as is or why he might offer a discount
ger147
Tour Winner
Bottom of the class for you if you think £305 is halfway between the quote and your initial offer.
I do tutoring in Maths and Arithmetic but I'm guessing if you still can't count after being tutored I wouldn't be paid...
D
Deleted member 21258
Guest
Completely agree.
Phil, if you had agreed to pay him an hourly rate, then hourly it should be, failing that you agreed a job price(how you priced it in your mind is not relevant sadly).
Also it maybe that the guy worked extra hard, to get the job done quicker (as he was on a job price).
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
The problem was caused by the gardener explaining his quote. If he just said £395 and not mentioned anything about how long it would take in explanation of the cost, there wouldn’t be an issue ... and oddly enough you may not have accepted the quote because as you said, it seemed quite high.
If he had said £18 per hour that would have been different but then you may have worried he may take his time.
As he said £395 for the job, then that was the quote. I can though see why you are a bit peeved as he quoted for a job he thought was bigger than it was. But as others have said, if it took twice as long you may have very probably relied on the £395 quote for completing the job.
As always in these things talking in a reasonable and civil way usually resolves the issue and it seems that this is the case this time. Glad you got it sorted.
If he had said £18 per hour that would have been different but then you may have worried he may take his time.
As he said £395 for the job, then that was the quote. I can though see why you are a bit peeved as he quoted for a job he thought was bigger than it was. But as others have said, if it took twice as long you may have very probably relied on the £395 quote for completing the job.
As always in these things talking in a reasonable and civil way usually resolves the issue and it seems that this is the case this time. Glad you got it sorted.
drdel
Tour Rookie
The gardener planned for three days, he did it in two but unless he had other work he could bring forward he effectively lost a days pay.
If you thought the price was right pay up.
If you thought the price was right pay up.
U
User62651
Guest
Works both ways -
If he chats to other contractors you'll be on a contractor's bad payer list!
He could have worked much slower and padded the days out for the full price, he worked hard and finished early then got his profit slashed.
I've has this with hedgecutting, overpaid a guy I felt based on a job price and time taken for job, but had agreed job price in advance so paid it, next time I went with another cheaper contractor because I better knew how much time it takes and what the job was worth.
You could have agreed an hourly rate or you could have sought more job quotes so if you agree a full job price, you pay it imo.
If he chats to other contractors you'll be on a contractor's bad payer list!
He could have worked much slower and padded the days out for the full price, he worked hard and finished early then got his profit slashed.
I've has this with hedgecutting, overpaid a guy I felt based on a job price and time taken for job, but had agreed job price in advance so paid it, next time I went with another cheaper contractor because I better knew how much time it takes and what the job was worth.
You could have agreed an hourly rate or you could have sought more job quotes so if you agree a full job price, you pay it imo.
robinthehood
Hacker
If i were the gardener I'd have raised a small claim against you for the full amount.
Robster59
Tour Rookie
I have to say I'm on the side of the gardener here. He quoted you a price for doing the work which you agreed to. If he did it faster that's his business but you should honour your verbal agreement. Also, it will leave a bad taste in his mouth for when he's working for your Mum.
User2021
Challenge Tour Pro
If I was that Gardener, no way would I be doing any more work for Phil or his mother.
Oh Phillip, you have let yourself down, your Mother and the whole forum down..
pay the man what you agreed
pay the man what you agreed
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Earlier this summer I had a built-up patio removed - and that required moving over a ton of scalpings. The landscaper (brother-in-law of a very good friend of Mrs Hogan) gave me a FP quote of say £300 and told me how long he expected it would take. It took him a couple of hours less than he had expected and knocked £50 off his charge. He need not have done so but I did say that when he was quoting that I didn't want him coming back for more. So he will have quoted high but knowing that in doing so were he to come in under time then I might be looking for some cut - maybe I would have - but I didn't set any such expectation.
That said - he knew we were thinking of doing a big landscaping project and would have had his eye on that. We are going ahead with that next week and he has got the job - and it is a good few thousands and three weeks work. Good customer-supplier relationship. we'll see how next three weeks go.
That said - he knew we were thinking of doing a big landscaping project and would have had his eye on that. We are going ahead with that next week and he has got the job - and it is a good few thousands and three weeks work. Good customer-supplier relationship. we'll see how next three weeks go.
Lazkir
Head Pro
I think part of it is down to the Gardeners lack of clarity about the job.
For example, I went to do a job yesterday and I explained my half hourly rate. I explained that there was a chance that the job could take up to two hours, and if so then this is what it will cost. I then went on to explain that if I got it done quicker then it would be X amount cheaper.
It's not rocket science, it's about being fair to yourself as well as your customers.
A lot of you are saying that as the gardener you wouldn't do anymore work for him again, but have you thought that there might be a lean time in the future and Phil might not want to use him again?
It's a two way street and both are at fault for not making things absolutely clear beforehand.
For example, I went to do a job yesterday and I explained my half hourly rate. I explained that there was a chance that the job could take up to two hours, and if so then this is what it will cost. I then went on to explain that if I got it done quicker then it would be X amount cheaper.
It's not rocket science, it's about being fair to yourself as well as your customers.
A lot of you are saying that as the gardener you wouldn't do anymore work for him again, but have you thought that there might be a lean time in the future and Phil might not want to use him again?
It's a two way street and both are at fault for not making things absolutely clear beforehand.
This is turning in to an international scandal, I sense a public outcry, I suspect there will be calls for your head, you may find it better in the long run to just hand over your moderator stripes, you've brought global shame upon the GM FORUM.
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HankMarvin
Tour Rookie
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