What is the Difference?

[PhilTheFragger]

Can someone clever let me know what the difference is between Par and Standard Scratch

The Course I play has a par of 70 , but a standard scratch of 71

I await enlightenment

Cheers

 

[Owen_Thomas_14]

Standard scratch is how many shots over or under par the course is playing on the day. The fixed standard scratch is on average how many shots it plays harder than par.

 

[RGDave]

Standard scratch is how many shots over or under par the course is playing on the day. The fixed standard scratch is on average how many shots it plays harder than par.

Is it? I thought SSS - standard scratch score, was the level above or below par for the "scratch" golfer taking into account course difficulty and length (and others)
CSS - competiton scratch score is the one that moves according to how the field plays.

Normally, if the SSS is above par, then the course is "presumed" to be harder than par and vice versa.

 

[Owen_Thomas_14]

Yeah your right i should have said the competition SSS moves up and down on the day.

 

[RGDave]

Yes, I knew you knew what you meant!!!

 

[Owen_Thomas_14]

Yes, I knew you knew what you meant!!!

Im glad someone did because i never lol

 

[Imurg]

I'll fill you in on thursday.
Just ask little bro - he knows you know!!

 

[PhilTheFragger]

So what you are saying is that if it is raining or a bit windy they might alter the standard scratch up a couple to relect this.

And theres me thinking that a par was a par

Still dont really get it, is it like some Masonic secret

will get imurg to divulge under torture

 

[RGDave]

So what you are saying is that if it is raining or a bit windy they might alter the standard scratch up a couple to relect this.

And theres me thinking that a par was a par

Still dont really get it, is it like some Masonic secret

Yes, if the course is playing harder the CSS will be altered.

I think the best reason for scratch scores is not for weekly
small changes one way or t'other but for the sake of good handicapping.

Our par is 70. Our SSS off white is 69 and off yellow 67.
We don't have adjustments off yellow, but off white it is fair that players (such as myself) can score a shot better than par before getting cut. I could play to 10 week in, week out and maintain a h'cap of 11....not that I do.....

What made me mad was being given a h'cap of 11 after a +14 gross on a CSS of 67 (winter mats).....to my mind (as I didn't have any triples) I should have started on h'cap 17.

 

[Region3]

This has probably already been said but I'll try to put it in a different way as I understand it.

Standard Scratch Score (sss) is what score a scratch golfer might be expected to go round in on any given day, assuming good conditions.

Competition Scratch Score (css) is supposed to represent how easy or hard the course played for a particular competition, and is worked out by a calculation involving what percentage of competitors under a certain handicap scored sss+2 or lower.

I think

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Standard Scratch Score (sss) is what score a scratch golfer might be expected to go round in on any given day, assuming good conditions.

So what is Par then if it isnt the above

To my mind par and sss should be the same

Or am I missing something?

 

[doublebogey7]

Par is used to reflect the number of shots a good golfer would expect to get down in on each individual hole.

SSS reflects the difficulty of the course as a whole and is required to ensure handicaps accurately reflects a players ability no matter where they play their golf.

If par alone was used to assess handicaps then a member of Muckhart (6086 yrds par 71 SSS 70) playing off scratch would not be of the same ability as a scratch member of Muirfield (6601 yds par 70 SSS 73).

Hope this helps

 

[RGDave]

Par is used to reflect the number of shots a good golfer would expect to get down in on each individual hole.

SSS reflects the difficulty of the course as a whole and is required to ensure handicaps accurately reflects a players ability no matter where they play their golf.

If par alone was used to assess handicaps then a member of Muckhart (6086 yrds par 71 SSS 70) playing off scratch would not be of the same ability as a scratch member of Muirfield (6601 yds par 70 SSS 73).

Hope this helps

Superb. This is the important bit. Well explained.

A par 3/4/5 is a par 3/4/5. Over 18 holes, one might presume it to even out, but as we all know, some courses are easy, and others damned hard. When I played in Birmingham on the muni circuit, the difference between courses was HUGE, with some of the "lesser" courses being SSS 64 or something equally low.

I guess SSS reflects the overall difficulty and the CSS takes care of the handicaps. Par is almost "irrelevant" to the gross scores or stableford points.....

 

[viscount17]

par is an, almost, 'mechanical' measure of a course.

primary factor is length of hole then 'playability'. This would probably only affect holes at the extremes of the length categories (par 3 up to 250; par 4 251-475; par 5 476 & up (there are some par 6's)). Playability can include gradient (short 4 might be a par 3 if downhill; long 4 might be a 5 if uphill), hazards and difficulty of green (slope, shape, placement) - generally could the layout force a good golfer to lay-up.

 

[Mike_j_golf]

The SSS is really the diffculty of the course compared to Par as said above if the course is 7000 yards long and par 72 its going to be a lot harder than a course that is 6000 yards long and par 72 so there SSS's may be 74 and 68 as that is what a scratch golfer would be expected to play them in 74 strokes and 68 strokes. In thwe end of the day it dose not really effect anything as the CSS determines the handicap cut not the SSS
Mike

 

[backwoodsman]

Others have already given explanations - SSS is the number of shots expected of a scratch golfer to get round the course as a whole. Par is the number of shots, hole by hole. Another way of looking at it....

On a hard course, a scratch player is likely to make more bogeys than birdies so he will go round in slightly more shots than par, so Par 70, and SSS, say 72. The other way round, an easy course he's likely to make more birdies than bogies so par 70 and SSS say 68

The difference between SSS and Par is the measure of how much the harder or easier the course plays. Eg Sherwood Forest (mentioned in this months GM) is Par 70 and SSS 74 so presumably is a bit of a bugger to play...

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Imurg explained it all to me during our interesting round at Collingtree.

So Why dont we do away with Par altogether and base everything on the sss system with Css for competitions.

It would make it less complicated

 

[JustOne]

Imurg explained it all to me during our interesting round at Collingtree.

So Why dont we do away with Par altogether and base everything on the sss system with Css for competitions.

It would make it less complicated

If you are playing a par72 course with a SSS74 which are the two holes that should have extra shots added? Should the short but tricky 480 yard par 5 dogleg over water and heavily bunkered become a par 6? If you do away with par then you wouldn't be able to add up scores per hole... you'd have to wait until the end, and matchplay wouldn't be such fun.

I don't mind standing on the tee thinking this is a par72 that is really tough because it's a SSS74 whereas I hate standing on a course that has SSS69 because I have to make 3 birdies before I get anywhere

 

[PhilTheFragger]

If you are playing a par72 course with a SSS74 which are the two holes that should have extra shots added? Should the short but tricky 480 yard par 5 dogleg over water and heavily bunkered become a par 6? If you do away with par then you wouldn't be able to add up scores per hole... you'd have to wait until the end, and matchplay wouldn't be such fun.

No, In my master plan, you would still allocate a target score to each hole, just that this score would be based on SSS (ie the actual difficulty of that hole) rather than par which is a mechanical measurement . keep stroke index

no worries

 

[Imurg]

Just coz you don't make many........