What is a "members" golf club?

[D-S]

Well - that's how I view being a member of a private members club...but a good number of members of my club might not see their membership in such a light.

I am generally comfortable with the club making decisions about changes to course and facilities that will cause short term (could be many months) disruption and that change the way things look and/or play - if I can see that the changes are to the longer term benefit of the club and course, and will be of benefit to future members. This year we spent six months in a marquee as our clubhouse ground floor was completely refurbished. Major disruption for members. Now fully reopened what we have done is ab fab - even those members who were sceptical or opposed the work admit now that what we have done is tremendous for members and visitors alike.

Even more extreme. When a member of Filton GC in Bristol mid-80s to mid-90s the club carried out very major changes that caused massive and significant disruption for a few years. When I look at the changes now I see a course that has gone from being the very poor relation of members clubs in Bristol to one that nowadays holds local and regional championships. I was proud of Filton when a member - and I am pleased and proud of that club it has become - even 30yrs since I left.

Having been a member of Bristol clubs for the past 35 years, I honestly never saw Filton as a particularly poor relation to other Bristol clubs. I also haven’t seen their reputation diminish or increase locally over the past 30 years. It is a decent club, with decent members and some very good players. They have some issues with local neighbours but that has long been the case. They have held many county comps and still no doubt will but tend not to be in the top Gloucestershire rank for regional and national events.
They have just done a big landfill operation which will help finances but has caused disruption in the past year or so. As yet the new money has not resulted in major course changes/improvements but that may come.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Having been a member of Bristol clubs for the past 35 years, I honestly never saw Filton as a particularly poor relation to other Bristol clubs. I also haven’t seen their reputation diminish or increase locally over the past 30 years. It is a decent club, with decent members and some very good players. They have some issues with local neighbours but that has long been the case. They have held many county comps and still no doubt will but tend not to be in the top Gloucestershire rank for regional and national events.
They have just done a big landfill operation which will help finances but has caused disruption in the past year or so. As yet the new money has not resulted in major course changes/improvements but that may come.

Good to hear…the major work was late 80s into early 1990s iirc. Very disruptive selling land down by Pen Park Hole…and then building two new holes front nine and digging the pond and lake - the lake now filled in - not sure about the pond. Plus of course back in the early 80s the trees on the course were still pretty sparse - legacy from RR ownership days. It was, and remains, a very inclusive and friendly club… but it was back then a poor relation. From the mid-90s the changes had bedded in pretty well and to great improvement - and 30yrs later all nicely matured . But to the point - the disruption was huge but the members stuck it out to the benefit of todays members

 

[IanM]

Not played Filton in over 20 years... might need to look in

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Thanks all. My hang up is the use of the word "private". In my experience, private things aren't open to anyone to just go and use/do/play.

I think its a fair way of looking at it. A private members club is like any members club, such as a working mens club or any drinking club. You have to be a member to drink there whereas a pub will let anyone walk in and buy a pint (in theory).
So a privare members golf club allows its members to play anytime and for free, whereas a guest must be with a member or a visitor must ask to play but both of those need the non member to pay for their game.

 

[rulie]

I think its a fair way of looking at it. A private members club is like any members club, such as a working mens club or any drinking club. You have to be a member to drink there whereas a pub will let anyone walk in and buy a pint (in theory).
So a private members golf club allows its members to play anytime and for free, whereas a guest must be with a member or a visitor must ask to play but both of those need the non member to pay for their game.

I'm sure that there are many variations around the world. For example, in my part of the world, there are "property taxes" which the owner must pay. There are tax rules for golf courses that reduce the tax amount if the public is permitted to pay and play. So, in order to reduce taxes, "private" clubs often have a time period in which they allow the public to play with or without members. Also, some private clubs do not permit guests to pay - the guest must play with a member, and the member pays for the guest.
Many variations....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not played Filton in over 20 years... might need to look in

Open Better Ball?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I'm sure that there are many variations around the world. For example, in my part of the world, there are "property taxes" which the owner must pay. There are tax rules for golf courses that reduce the tax amount if the public is permitted to pay and play. So, in order to reduce taxes, "private" clubs often have a time period in which they allow the public to play with or without members. Also, some private clubs do not permit guests to pay - the guest must play with a member, and the member pays for the guest.
Many variations....

But as a member of my club, I can play anytime I want as long as the tee is open

 

[IanM]

Open Better Ball?

Can do if the diary is free

 

[federalexpress]

I think to assume that private members clubs don't accept, let alone even welcome visitors is wrong. Obviously it will depend on circumstances, but the vast majority of members' clubs will need visitors' income to help keep membership fees down. The balance is to allow enough to be able to achieve this, without leading to members having insufficient tee times. In other words, basic utilisation principles. At my members club, we certainly accept and welcome visitors (granted a few members are not keen but neither do they want to pay the higher fees that would be necessary if we had none)

The governance part is an interesting issue with inherent tensions. On the one hand, a club cannot be run to please all its members and doing anything by committee may well be doomed to failure. The trick is to empower those who run the club to do so, in conjunction with the executive staff, while still offering adequate check and balances for members. Harder than it sounds. In my club there is, in my view, a tendency to try and diminish those check and balances, which I very much disagree with, but as with everything, it is much easier for those (members) who do run the club, to do so with nearly unlimited powers.

In my experience, some clubs seem to pull this off this tricky balance quite well, others less so.

 

[rulie]

I think to assume that private members clubs don't accept, let alone even welcome visitors is wrong. Obviously it will depend on circumstances, but the vast majority of members' clubs will need visitors' income to help keep membership fees down. The balance is to allow enough to be able to achieve this, without leading to members having insufficient tee times. In other words, basic utilisation principles. At my members club, we certainly accept and welcome visitors (granted a few members are not keen but neither do they want to pay the higher fees that would be necessary if we had none)

The governance part is an interesting issue with inherent tensions. On the one hand, a club cannot be run to please all its members and doing anything by committee may well be doomed to failure. The trick is to empower those who run the club to do so, in conjunction with the executive staff, while still offering adequate check and balances for members. Harder than it sounds. In my club there is, in my view, a tendency to try and diminish those check and balances, which I very much disagree with, but as with everything, it is much easier for those (members) who do run the club, to do so with nearly unlimited powers.

In my experience, some clubs seem to pull this off this tricky balance quite well, others less so.

One time when I was chosen to be the chair of a golf committee, I asked the outgoing chair about committee makeup - numbers, age, experience etc. He thought for a moment and said, "Well, it should be an odd number." I thought that was good advice, particularly if something contentious should come to a close vote. Then he added, "And three is too many."