What’s the Hardest to do

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Hardest to Achieve


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Golfmmad

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Been thinking about this today.
Looking at it like this, if you had Rory Mcilroy, Ronnie O'Sullivan and a top dart player ( don't know darts) trying to achieve the feat, for one week, which would succeed first.
I tend to think that a hole in one would be the most difficult.
 

fundy

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Been thinking about this today.
Looking at it like this, if you had Rory Mcilroy, Ronnie O'Sullivan and a top dart player ( don't know darts) trying to achieve the feat, for one week, which would succeed first.
I tend to think that a hole in one would be the most difficult.


and if you had someone unskilled in all 3 the result would most likely be the reverse order (with the HIO easiest)

The hole in one is hardest for the very highly skilled, its the only possibility for everyone else
 

sjw

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Been thinking about this today.
Looking at it like this, if you had Rory Mcilroy, Ronnie O'Sullivan and a top dart player ( don't know darts) trying to achieve the feat, for one week, which would succeed first.
I tend to think that a hole in one would be the most difficult.

McIlory wouldn't get a 147 or a 9 darter in a year of trying.
 

Voyager EMH

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Every frame, whoever pots that first red has an attempt at a 147. How many frames played in a day, divided by 2, would give an approximation to number of attempts in a day.
4 par threes on a course = 4 attempts in one day. Probably a reasonable approximation for this purpose.
Don't know how to give a figure for darts - number of attempts in one day?

Multiply by 7 for a week, or whatever for a longer period.

If we are to consider practice play for snooker and darts, then I would have to consider Rory hitting 1,000 shots to a fairly benign par three on one day.
I don't think I would risk too much money betting that he doesn't hole one.

I'm not trying to make a specific point, merely "thinking out loud" if you like.
It is an interesting thing to think about and discuss.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan

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Yeah, but the same luck could be had by an amateur. These shots that you see when they hit the green, spin back, break, into the hole... no one will ever be able to convince me that they were intended. There is just simply too much variation in the greens etc. Skill to hit the green, yes. Within x feet of the cup, on demand, absolutely. To put backspin on the ball, yes. But once it's left their club face, it's in the hands of the golf gods as to whether it ends up in the hole or not.
Which is why I might suggest that being able to deliberately and intentionally execute a hole-in-one is extremely difficult (quite probably impossible) as that outcome requires a very significant amount of luck given the external factors over which the golfer has little or no influence. That many golfers have had a hole-in-one is largely irrelevant in a skill discussion, as for most golfers the luck factor massively outweighs the skill factor.
 

sjw

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This whole discussion comes down to whether you define something that requires a huge amount of luck as being hard or not. Unlikely, yes, but hard? Not for me, but I can see why others would argue for it.
 

The Fader

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Two completely different answers between professionals and amateurs.

In my opinion for professionals the hardest is 147, followed by hole in one followed by 9 darter.

Amateurs have a chance of a hole in one but no realistic chance of the other two. Although a 9 darter would be more likely With hours of dedication.

With darts and snooker - the complete task has to be error free. The golfing task is one element of a wider task.

I think a fairer comparison, mentioned earlier, would be a bogey free tournement- in which case the golfing task would be the hardest.
 

Orikoru

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This whole discussion comes down to whether you define something that requires a huge amount of luck as being hard or not. Unlikely, yes, but hard? Not for me, but I can see why others would argue for it.
It's a weird thing to judge to be honest. Like asking is it difficult to win the lottery? It's not easy and very unlikely to win it, but it takes no skill level to win it, so in that sense it's not difficult. As others have said, the better comparison would be something that takes ability, like breaking 65 or something.
 
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rksquire

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Ronnie O'Sullivan (arguably best ever?) has played over 12,500 frames of snooker (excluding practice) and has had 15 maximums (again, excluding any in practice). It's not a perfect stat, as really you can assume he comes to the table 50% of the time with the opportunity (ie his opponent hasn't potted a ball, he breaks every other frame etc.) so it's more likely 15 in 6,250 frames {1 every 415 attempts}. Also, whilst the ball positions change, the playing surface remains the same, he doesn't change equipment, there's no wind or rain and there's no dodgy lies or pin positions. There might be some 'luck' involved in one or 2 shots in the break but everything is dependent on the previous shot being successful. Virtually zero chance a social player does it.

Tiger Woods (arguably best ever?) has played somewhere between 1,250 and 1,500 rounds of professional golf and has 11 tournament holes in one. Again, not perfect, as not all holes are Par 3s, but assuming 4 par 3s per round, he has 11 in about 5,000 to 6,000 attempts {1 every 450 to 545 attempts}. However, there are lots of variables in an individuals golf swing, elevation, humidity, weather, pin positions, green speed & complexity etc. so there is also lots of luck! There is a chance a social player does it.

Phil Taylor and Van Gerwen have 45 9 dart finishes between them (21 & 24)... it's hard to work out the number of legs but in Taylors case he has won over 200 tournaments and has over 80 majors - basically he's probably thrown 10s of thousands legs. In his favour, he has the same conditions every single time (numbers don't move around, oche is the same, equipment is the same etc.); against him is probability - each dart increases or decreases the possibility. For example, highest check out is 167 so if your first dart isn't 34 or more, chance is gone. Virtually zero chance a social player does it.

Professionally, I think a hole in one is hardest - McIlroy has none, whereas I would expect a reasonable proportion of professional darts players and snooker players to achieve their equivalent feat, either in practice or tournaments.
For amateurs, I think a hole in one is easiest. I don't think they have any change of a 9 dart finish or 147.
 

srixon 1

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Would it be worth running this thread again and changing the hole-in-one to another comparable golfing feat?
Not sure what that would be though?

Gary Wolstenholme played in the Leicestershire County Championship one year at Willesley Park. He won.
He started his first round with 5 consecutive birdies on holes 1 to 5.
His two rounds on the day got him from +3 to +4 handicap.

So maybe 6 consecutive holes in 6 under par or better - might be comparable - or is that just too hard?
I made 6 birdies in a row a few years ago. The last 6 holes of the round. I then had a birdie on the 1st hole of my next round. I was playing off 3 at the time. There is no way I will ever complete a 147 or a 9 darter.
 

Voyager EMH

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I made 6 birdies in a row a few years ago. The last 6 holes of the round. I then had a birdie on the 1st hole of my next round. I was playing off 3 at the time. There is no way I will ever complete a 147 or a 9 darter.
Wow. Absolutely brilliant.
I think your feat of 6 birdies in a row is equal to a 147 or a 9 darter. But my darts knowledge is weak.
I've done 4 in a row - twice. Once in winning my club championship and another time in the scratch matchplay final and I was runner up - Argh!
I've also done hole-in-one followed by 2 consecutive birdies. The 18-hole score for that round equalled my lifetime best of 3-under par.
Don't think either of those equals a 147.
I've already had disagreement to six birdies in a row.
How many birdies in row to be equivalent to a 147? Should be interesting to discuss.
 
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srixon 1

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Wow. Absolutely brilliant.
I think your feat of 6 birdies in a row is equal to a 147 or a 9 darter. But my darts knowledge is weak.
I've done 4 in a row.
I've also done hole-in-one followed by 2 consecutive birdies. The 18-hole score for that round equalled my lifetime best of 3-under par.
Don't think either of those equals a 147.
I've already had disagreement to six birdies in a row.
How many birdies in row to be equivalent to a 147? Should be interesting to discuss.
I think with snooker and darts you have to be almost perfect in your execution of every shot. With golf, for the long shots you have margin for error with the width of th fairways and green sizes etc. I would say that the real skill would be reading the greens and getting the ball into the hole with the putter.
 

Voyager EMH

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I think with snooker and darts you have to be almost perfect in your execution of every shot. With golf, for the long shots you have margin for error with the width of th fairways and green sizes etc. I would say that the real skill would be reading the greens and getting the ball into the hole with the putter.
Yes.
The 147 is a sense of perfection in scoring. So is a hole-in-one. But I don't feel the two are comparable. Like you say, the 147 is a series of perfect shots.
So for me, a number of birdies in a row (or and eagle in there, but no pars or bogeys) is a sensible comparison.
During the 147 there will be some relatively easy pots, just like a wide fairway or a big green.
The question for me is, how many birdies in a row to be equivalent to a 147 ?
Don't think it should be 18.
54 shots round Augusta won't be happening. o_O
 

Hobbit

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Yes.
The 147 is a sense of perfection in scoring. So is a hole-in-one. But I don't feel the two are comparable. Like you say, the 147 is a series of perfect shots.
So for me, a number of birdies in a row (or and eagle in there, but no pars or bogeys) is a sensible comparison.
During the 147 there will be some relatively easy pots, just like a wide fairway or a big green.
The question for me is, how many birdies in a row to be equivalent to a 147 ?
Don't think it should be 18.
54 shots round Augusta won't be happening. o_O

But some of those holes are eagle-able, including holes-in-one. The score of 147 is the perfect score but isn’t necessarily a series of perfect shots. Running the white too far for the next ball isn’t a perfect shot as it makes the next shot harder. And bouncing a golf ball off a rake and into the hole isn’t the perfect shot but leads to the perfect score.

If each hole is eagle-able, is the perfect score 36? And if there’s been an albatross on any particular hole, should that then be included in the ultimate score?
 

Voyager EMH

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But some of those holes are eagle-able, including holes-in-one. The score of 147 is the perfect score but isn’t necessarily a series of perfect shots. Running the white too far for the next ball isn’t a perfect shot as it makes the next shot harder. And bouncing a golf ball off a rake and into the hole isn’t the perfect shot but leads to the perfect score.

If each hole is eagle-able, is the perfect score 36? And if there’s been an albatross on any particular hole, should that then be included in the ultimate score?
So what is equivalent in golf to a 147 - something that is equally hard to achieve?
I offered 6 birdies in a row. It appears, and I concede, that I set the bar too low.
Must be somewhere between 7 and 18, but I'm not sure where.
 
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