Water in bunkers

Rlburnside

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First out today in comp hit shot 120 yards to green but saw big splash in bunker.

Nowhere to drop in bunker and wasn’t sure of ruling, dropped ball behind bunker and chipped on but asked someone 4 holes later and he said it was a one shot penalty.

Am I right in saying committee can deem bunkers unplayable and get free relief?
 

Backache

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I believe the committee can deem them ground under repair, but it doesn't sound like they did if you didn't know.
I think your options are dropping within the bunker at the nearest por if available not nearer the hole. If not the point of best relief not nearer the hole without penalty.
If this is no good either stroke and distance or relief along the line from the flag under one stroke penalty.
Doubtless someone will be along with a more accurate interpretation though.
 

jim8flog

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Bunker Filled with Temporary Water

Purpose. If a bunker is flooded, free relief under Rule 16.1c may not be sufficient to allow for fair play. A Committee can choose to treat that bunker as ground under repair in the general area from which free relief is allowed outside the bunker.
The Committee should only use this Local Rule on a case-by-case basis and is not authorized to make a Local Rule providing generally that all flooded bunkers are ground under repair.
 

rulefan

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Bunker Filled with Temporary Water

Purpose. If a bunker is flooded, free relief under Rule 16.1c may not be sufficient to allow for fair play. A Committee can choose to treat that bunker as ground under repair in the general area from which free relief is allowed outside the bunker.
The Committee should only use this Local Rule on a case-by-case basis and is not authorized to make a Local Rule providing generally that all flooded bunkers are ground under repair.
At the same time, they may, at their discretion, deem the bunker itself to be a No Play Zone.
 

Swinglowandslow

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I was going to make a thread on similar, almost same question.
I play a course where the bunkers are big. Most are at present flooded big time. I mean you could almost swim in them.!
Seriously,, they are big enough to lose your ball in them.
This is what has happened a few times recently when playing a friendly.
Long shot goes in bunker, We know that cos we saw the splash.
When we get there, the ball is not to be seen ( murky water),and the large bunker is too large to be "trawled" to retrieve the ball.
What happens in a competition. ? It cannot be a lost ball surely, and I wouldn't in allfairness say it was a water hazard( I know, penalty area😀), in that a water hazard is permanent and not really designed to be played out of.
But I am aware that golf rules are sometimes not fair, so what is the rule when your ball goes to Davey Jones's locker.
 

rosecott

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I was going to make a thread on similar, almost same question.
I play a course where the bunkers are big. Most are at present flooded big time. I mean you could almost swim in them.!
Seriously,, they are big enough to lose your ball in them.
This is what has happened a few times recently when playing a friendly.
Long shot goes in bunker, We know that cos we saw the splash.
When we get there, the ball is not to be seen ( murky water),and the large bunker is too large to be "trawled" to retrieve the ball.
What happens in a competition. ? It cannot be a lost ball surely, and I wouldn't in allfairness say it was a water hazard( I know, penalty area😀), in that a water hazard is permanent and not really designed to be played out of.
But I am aware that golf rules are sometimes not fair, so what is the rule when your ball goes to Davey Jones's locker.

16.1e. Relief for Your Ball Not Found but in or on Abnormal Course Condition

If your ball has not been found and it is known or virtually certain that your ball came to rest in or on an abnormal course condition on the course you may take relief under Rule 16.1b, c or d. You do this by using the estimated point where the ball last crossed the edge of the abnormal course condition as the reference point.
 

rulefan

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But

16.1c. Relief for Your Ball in Bunker


If your ball is in a bunker and there is interference by an abnormal course condition on the course, you may take either:

Free Relief: Under Rule 16.1b, except that:
Penalty Relief: by Playing from Outside Bunker (Back-On-the-Line Relief): For one penalty stroke, you may drop a ball as shown in Diagram 16.1c.
 

Swinglowandslow

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But

16.1c. Relief for Your Ball in Bunker


If your ball is in a bunker and there is interference by an abnormal course condition on the course, you may take either:

Free Relief: Under Rule 16.1b, except that:
Penalty Relief: by Playing from Outside Bunker (Back-On-the-Line Relief): For one penalty stroke, you may drop a ball as shown in Diagram 16.1c.

Thanks, now understand, I think.
This problem did prompt a couple of discussions points.
1. Ball is putted off the green into flooded bunker, with no relief area in the bunker? Is the next shot from on the green under penalty of one stroke.
2. Why does the R A make things so draconian. Why not rule that golf clubs should be able to make a local rule when bunkers are flooded , that a drop outside the bunker with no penalty can be the rule for that day's competition .
It permits speed of play with everything being clear.
The fact that it eases play a little isn't too important, for it's the same for all players
The latter is purely my opinion, what's yours?
 

rulefan

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A bunker is what was called a hazard. So don't go there - it is hazardous. If you do, play it, possibly with difficulty.
Otherwise take the penalty to get out. That of course is probably the fastest way ;)

However, the old Hamlet cigar issue has been softened. Until this year, if you didn't get out first time, you couldn't drop out at all. Now you can but it costs 2 strokes. Possibly cheap at the price for some. :unsure:
 

rulefan

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Where does this come from ? I can’t find any reference to it in the CONGU manual or on the England Golf website.

I was told this many years ago by the chair of the relevant (then EGU) sub-committee when I was a member of it.

But the Handicapping Manager at England Golf issued the following to Counties and Handicap Advisors a couple of years ago

Bunkers marked as GUR.
This has caused some debate within CONGU as to the impact of Bunkers can have on a competition retaining it qualifying status.
CONGU state that when `some bunkers` are out of play due to maintenance, and are marked as GUR an qualifying competition can be played.

What counts as some?
CONGU have struggled to define this, so England Golf advise that if more than 50% of bunkers are out of play due to maintenance or weather conditions then the competition must be declared as a non-qualifier.
 

woofers

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OK thanks.
I wonder why they haven’t published this on their website.
As it is a couple of years old, wasn’t circulated wider than Counties and Handicap Advisors (whoever they are?) but apparently not to golf clubs is it still “in force”?
Also the words underlined in the England Golf statement don’t specifically say that the bunkers have to be marked GUR.
Apologies if I’m being pedantic but in many years of playing golf and serving on various committees this is the first I have heard of the 50% “rule”.
 

rulefan

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It is still the EG rule.
I'm afraid either your county has been negligent in advising your club as it also contained important information about Supplementary Scores for Cat 1 players and Preferred Lie. But I know my county forwarded the information to all our clubs. Or your club and the competitions/handicap committee didn't publicise it in your club. If the latter, I can see why as I doubt it of relevance to most members and the information was really of 'technical' interest to the committee. As it happens, I informed our cat 1 players of the part relevant to them.
I suggest that a note directly to clubs is more effective than posting on the website. The hit rate there is notoriously poor for administrative stuff.
I can't see that the actual words matter. The intent of the ruling is clear.
 

woofers

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Many thanks again, we have a comps and handicap committee meeting next week, I’ll see if anyone has knowledge or information regarding this.
 
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