Was I wrong and should he be DQ'd

[duncan mackie]

But who's to say the person was an official comp official? OP only assumed he was a committee person, Better safe than DQ'd and having all the issues as above

I was going to let 3-3 pass, but as you are suggested it's a 'safe' solution I would point you in the direction of 3-3/2 and suggest that in this case it would be difficult to justify not applying a penalty under 6-7 if the player insisited on playing out the two balls! The alternative would be 2 shots under 15-3 if he played the provisional first because it's been rules out of play.

In such situations the player should be entitled to the implied authority of an identifiable club official.

More 'can of worms' than safe solution here.

 

[chrisd]

Indeed, had there been doubt about the status of the person. I was thinking the player was satisfied that this was a committee member - and as such he would have the authority to make a ruling.

As Duncan says, there will be many many breaches every medal round up and down the country. I watched a player from the clubhouse taking relief from GUR by going from where his ball had been to the fairway at right angles to the direction of the hole which simple geometry tells you must be nearer the hole. I've no reason to doubt he thought he was doing the right thing and little reason to imagine he was the only one that day. Did I abandon my rather nice pint of Belhaven Black and rush out to deal? Too right I didn't. :cheers:

I agree entirely with this. Only question though, there are several committee members at our place and most are not on the golf committee. If the committee member was, say, on the finance committee, would they have the right to act as " a member of the committee"?

I played yesterday in an away knockout comp and was required to offer an explanation on two issues of rules. One was nearest point of relief from a path and when I pointed the spot the guy said it wasn't right as his swing would be impeded by a tree! I explained NPOR and he dropped and played on correctly, but had it been a comp what would he have done

 

[duncan mackie]

I played yesterday in an away knockout comp and was required to offer an explanation on two issues of rules. One was nearest point of relief from a path and when I pointed the spot the guy said it wasn't right as his swing would be impeded by a tree! I explained NPOR and he dropped and played on correctly, but had it been a comp what would he have done

you know what would have happened would have depended on his FCs.....

as alluded earlier, generally everyone just does their best

on the committee issue, it's the organising committee (of the competition) or as authorised by them. people can imply authority through their words and actions and, generally, the player should be able to act on that implication. ie if it quacks, looks like a duck and acts like a duck you can assume it's a duck! An example would be if there was a starter, and your tee time was 0900h - at 0858h the starter says "you may go early as it's clear" - you can assume that he is authorised by the committee and you shouldn't be penalised for acting on his instructions. Whether he is, or whether anyone's even considered it at your club, is another matter!

 

[williamalex1]

Just a thought, if he played his provisional ball beyond the point of his first ball then the provisional is the ball in play.

 

[Val]

Just a thought, if he played his provisional ball beyond the point of his first ball then the provisional is the ball in play.

Not really because he only made 1 stroke it just so happened to go further, it would if he made a second stroke at it regardless.

 

[chrisd]

you know what would have happened would have depended on his FCs.....

as alluded earlier, generally everyone just does their best

on the committee issue, it's the organising committee (of the competition) or as authorised by them. people can imply authority through their words and actions and, generally, the player should be able to act on that implication. ie if it quacks, looks like a duck and acts like a duck you can assume it's a duck! An example would be if there was a starter, and your tee time was 0900h - at 0858h the starter says "you may go early as it's clear" - you can assume that he is authorised by the committee and you shouldn't be penalised for acting on his instructions. Whether he is, or whether anyone's even considered it at your club, is another matter!

Precisely Duncan!

Now, a couple of weeks ago, in our annual Bogey comp, the pro ( who really should act for the committee on comp days) gave instructions that broke the rules of golf, I pointed this out before anyone had teed off and he still neither asked me to prove it or correct it!

 

[williamalex1]

Not really because he only made 1 stroke it just so happened to go further, it would if he made a second stroke at it regardless.

I missread , i should have went to specsavers

 

[duncan mackie]

Just a thought, if he played his provisional ball beyond the point of his first ball then the provisional is the ball in play.

not once his first ball has been found inbounds within 5 minutes - if that's what you are suggesting; and I read your post that way.

the provisional ball looses it's status as soon as those conditions are met

 

[williamalex1]

not once his first ball has been found inbounds within 5 minutes - if that's what you are suggesting; and I read your post that way.

the provisional ball looses it's status as soon as those conditions are met

Thanks Duncan, I misread the op I thought he had played additional shots passed his first ball, then his first ball would have been deemed lost as in 27-2b. yes ,
oops! I just noticed my rule book is 2004-2007, same as me out of date.

 

[Ian_S]

Out of interest, if there any way player A could have gone back to play his provisional given the ruling he received? If the original ball has been found 'in bounds' (by the ruling, that's what it is) then the provisional could surely not have been used even if he wanted to do the right thing.

In that case, player A should have a clear conscience. If the committee has made an incorrect decision that makes it impossible to do the right thing, then should he win, he should do so without worry.

 

[Foxholer]

Precisely Duncan!

Now, a couple of weeks ago, in our annual Bogey comp, the pro ( who really should act for the committee on comp days) gave instructions that broke the rules of golf, I pointed this out before anyone had teed off and he still neither asked me to prove it or correct it!

Meant to ask when you posted it the 'first' time...

How did he screw it up? What did he tell folk to do?

 

[duncan mackie]

Meant to ask when you posted it the 'first' time...

How did he screw it up? What did he tell folk to do?

I have a loose recollection it related to telling people to hole out in a Par competition - or be DQ'd; but this might well be 2+2=53!

 

[MashieNiblick]

Out of interest, if there any way player A could have gone back to play his provisional given the ruling he received? If the original ball has been found 'in bounds' (by the ruling, that's what it is) then the provisional could surely not have been used even if he wanted to do the right thing.

In that case, player A should have a clear conscience. If the committee has made an incorrect decision that makes it impossible to do the right thing, then should he win, he should do so without worry.

Provisional is just that, and out of play when original "found" in bounds.

However he could have gone back to the tee and played another ball under under stroke and distance penalty (Rule 27-1a), which would have been three off the tee.

In the circs however that would have seemed a bit strange in view of the ruling he was given.

If it's a question of finding a way of adding the shots after he found out the ruling was wrong a couple of whiffs on the first tee of round 2 would do the business.

 

[duncan mackie]

If it's a question of finding a way of adding the shots after he found out the ruling was wrong a couple of whiffs on the first tee of round 2 would do the business.

you don't need the whiffs, just add the 2 to your score for that hole.

 

[Colin L]

you don't need the whiffs, just add the 2 to your score for that hole.

Yes. If you are going to do a noble thing, do it in a way that is noble not embarrassing!