Walking Away From My Club - Advice?

[HomerJSimpson]

We had issues when the club used Fairway Credit of members joining, playing April-October and then buggering off and cancelling the DD. I think the club had the liability and was then responsible for chasing the debt. Not sure if they ever did. We brought it back in house

 

[stevie_r]

6.1% is a good deal in this day with finance. And with your club doing there own dd cash flow will be a lot tighter for the start of the season, fairway credit normally pay up in full as soon as the second payment has gone out, your club will be relying on that money every month instead of a one off payment.

With a private members club I agree it could make start of season finances tight, but as a proprietary club of a largish hotel chain I have little, if any, concern.

 

[Deleted member 17920]

With a private members club I agree it could make start of season finances tight, but as a proprietary club of a largish hotel chain I have little, if any, concern.

Do you pay any interest on your in house direct debit or do the club do this as a service?

 

[stevie_r]

Do you pay any interest on your in house direct debit or do the club do this as a service?

Bespoke Hotels are doing it interest free, so in real terms my subs are reducing slightly :thup:

 

[Deleted member 17920]

Bespoke Hotels are doing it interest free, so in real terms my subs are reducing slightly :thup:

Now that's a good bit of customer service, clubs doing that deserve to keep members :thup:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Our pro mentioned this last week, if payments are defaulted then the problem is thrown back at the club. The hotel group that own our course are taking DDs in house next year, so bye bye fairway credit and their 6.1%.

I've asked our chairman about feasibility of doing this as would enable club perhaps to come up with more interesting membership options - so for instance could offer 'fixed cost' subs over say 5 or 10 yrs with a penalty for pulling out. But this would mean club would have to operate under the FSA - and that would be expensive to manage and not really worth it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We had issues when the club used Fairway Credit of members joining, playing April-October and then buggering off and cancelling the DD. I think the club had the liability and was then responsible for chasing the debt. Not sure if they ever did. We brought it back in house

That's why I was a bit surprised that the club is guarantor to Fairway Credit for each member - one heck of a liability for club to carry - but if that's how it works.

 

[Deleted member 17920]

I've asked our chairman about feasibility of doing this as would enable club perhaps to come up with more interesting membership options - so for instance could offer 'fixed cost' subs over say 5 or 10 yrs with a penalty for pulling out. But this would mean club would have to operate under the FSA - and that would be expensive to manage and not really worth it.

You already have a consumer credit licence to do the fairway credit so if the club took it in house I don't think you would fall under the FSA and differently than you do now.

As for the non payers I don't imagine that many people do default.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You already have a consumer credit licence to do the fairway credit so if the club took it in house I don't think you would fall under the FSA and differently than you do now.

As for the non payers I don't imagine that many people do default.

Maybe I'll ask again - but we have two experienced accountants on our new committee so hopefully they'd be able to advise if it is something we should consider doing. Chairman was pretty sure it wasn't worth it - but heck - he's our chairman. Maybe it would be to do with the fact that offering say 5 yr fixed rate deals would be offering a financial services product that we'd have to manage and administer - dunno.

 

[Scrindle]

I've asked our chairman about feasibility of doing this as would enable club perhaps to come up with more interesting membership options - so for instance could offer 'fixed cost' subs over say 5 or 10 yrs with a penalty for pulling out. But this would mean club would have to operate under the FSA - and that would be expensive to manage and not really worth it.

I think it is more likely to be a case of obtaining a Consumer Credit License under the CCA, rather than any real interaction with the FCA (Financial Conduct Authority now!), since what you've described isn't likely to constitute a regulated activity for the purposes of the FSMA 2000 or the RAO 2001, as far as I am aware (could be wrong though!).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think it is more likely to be a case of obtaining a Consumer Credit License under the CCA, rather than any real interaction with the FCA (Financial Conduct Authority now!), since what you've described isn't likely to constitute a regulated activity for the purposes of the FSMA 2000 or the RAO 2001, as far as I am aware (could be wrong though!).

Yes - CC License sounds possibly what he was on about.

 

[Deleted member 17920]

Yes - CC License sounds possibly what he was on about.

I think you will already have a CCL, I think you have to have one for fairway credit.

 

[Scrindle]

Yes - CC License sounds possibly what he was on about.

Would make more sense. I can't give you advice but I believe you would need a Category A consumer credit license at least (at the moment your club might have a category C license that enables it to introduce members to Fairway for credit purposes, depending on how the arrangement works). The trouble you would have with offering a 5-10 year sub period is that since the credit is being taken over a period longer than 12 months, your club would have to be compliant with Money Laundering Regulations which is a huge pain in the arse.

 

[SocketRocket]

OP

So you like the course, they have resurfaced the car park, they are a bit expensive with their burgers and you don't like the Club Pro, You seem to find the members cliquey. Are their regular competitions, roll ups etc that you can take part in and get to know people?

What about other members of staff? Is it only the Pro that you have a problem with, what about bar staff, assistant Pro's etc. Surely they are not all unhelpful.

Most Clubs have a members committee made up of elected members who organise members events, handicaps and represent the members to the owners. Have you discussed your issues with the club Captain or Officers? You could make your feelings known regarding the way you perceive the Club Pro, maybe others feel the same and if enough complaints are made then something will be done.

Regarding leaving and not paying the remainder of your fees, you will have probably accepted their Terms and Conditions so should check them through, they would quite likely chase you for the remaining fees as they probably would not want to set a precedence.

If you are going to join another club in the area I would suggest 'Worcester Golf and Country Club' (Boughton Park in St Johns) is worth a look, its a very nice club and course.

 

[stevie_r]

I've asked our chairman about feasibility of doing this as would enable club perhaps to come up with more interesting membership options - so for instance could offer 'fixed cost' subs over say 5 or 10 yrs with a penalty for pulling out. But this would mean club would have to operate under the FSA - and that would be expensive to manage and not really worth it.

Personally I wouldn't sign up for a 5 year term let alone 10. Additionally, part way into that period, the club could be underselling itself and missing out on potential revenue; predicting demand that far in advance and trying guess what subs could potentially be in 5 years time doesn't sound too wise.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Personally I wouldn't sign up for a 5 year term let alone 10. Additionally, part way into that period, the club could be underselling itself and missing out on potential revenue; predicting demand that far in advance and trying guess what subs could potentially be in 5 years time doesn't sound too wise.

I was only musing on possible ways of getting a commitment - not suggesting that we did it. Thinking was around member retention - an issue for all clubs. Rather goes back to OP.

 

[stevie_r]

I was only musing on possible ways of getting a commitment - not suggesting that we did it. Thinking was around member retention - an issue for all clubs. Rather goes back to OP.

It's a tricky one alright. Gone are long waiting lists (in the main) and joining fees are becoming the exception rather than the norm; Golf is now very much a buyers market and people will quite rightly look for what they perceive to be the best deal for them.

Some suggestions from the floor at our AGM last night from people who hadn't really thought it through:

'Stop signing the course up for voucher deals and society days'. - That is revenue that the hotel group needs to manage the course, we only have 221 male members and the course is fairly underplayed compared to some. There hasn't been a subscription increase at my club for a few years now, long may it continue.

'Increase subs and plow the extra money back into course improvements' - And thereby risk members finding a better deal elsewhere. In addition, there is no guarantee of course that all that increased revenue would be put back into the course by the hotel group.

'Reduce subs substantially and gain huge numbers of new members' - Or possibly not attract many having just committed financial suicide.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My basic line of thinking was to put 'products' together than offer say 5 or 10 yr memberships - with subs for each year fixed at a very attractive level - maybe quite a bit lower than a 1 or 2 year rate. But the longer deals have 'early cancellation' charge - to cover shortfall in subs paid over the number of years into the deal and administration costs =- so a buy-out cost.

But I don't know how it would work and whether a club would be able to get back the 'early cancellation' charge - unless you take a refundable deposit up front from which the charge is deducted if the member leaves early. But if you hold members repayable deposits that would seem to put the club in a place that the FSA would possibly have an interest in.

Was only a thought.