Videos of my swing and advice sought

[Jimbooo]

After getting contradictory information from different coaches, i was confused to what I *should* be doing and consequently my swing became a mess. So about a year ago I decided to just try and teach myself using some good books and online resources.

The good news is I think I'm finally getting there!

I'm still a little bit inconsistent, bad shot is either a pull draw/hook or I hit it fat, (with the very occasional slice only with the woods/driver it seems). These are nowhere near as often as they used to be though and overall I'm very happy with how its shaping up.

BUT... watching the videos of my swing, I can't help but feel that something is wrong post-impact - probably caused by something I'm doing pre-impact. I still seem to finish slightly unbalanced more often than not, and my finish position just doesn't look or feel right. I can't quite put my finger on it but maybe someone on here can help? It's almost as if my arms are forcing my head forward too much on the follow through, causing me to lose my spine angle (and therefore balance).

PW - DTL - Draw (on target)
http://youtu.be/Bf-iQZFosU8

PW - Behind - Draw (on target)
http://youtu.be/T8Shcphpqz0

PW - Face-on/Front Draw (on target)
http://youtu.be/FEaxgHseO0E

PW - Face-on Draw (on target - slightly fat)
http://youtu.be/GMSa9XdjFXU

5W DTL (Slice)
http://youtu.be/jxZb1eej6QA

Driver DTL (Slight Push)
http://youtu.be/sRnOhyfZkEE

Comments/advice welcome and much appreciated! Bob? JO? Anyone?

Thanks

 

[SocketRocket]

Hi There.

You do seem to be working hard on your swing which is great. There are a lot of good things in there but your main problem is that you are coming over the top in the downswing. You start down very steep and have to pull the club across you to get to the ball.


This video should help you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlxqjavxdjA&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL71AFC54C333E62EC

 

[JustOne]

Good looking swing that... for a fader....

There's lots of little things and compensations going on there, what is it you want to achieve?.... do you really want to go down the route of changing your swing and/or path?

It does look like you set up a little closed then pull-draw the ball, high hands help you stop the clubface turning over (so you don't just hook everything) but causes you to lose your spine angle.... but don't panic....

you have this guys swing and he does OK

(this one is good with sound!!)

[video=youtube;VDuebD2ZxCc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDuebD2ZxCc[/video]

[video=youtube;Ht1su1_ZsSY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht1su1_ZsSY[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpeX8uutKdQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9ec72x2zio

I would suggest you open your stance about 20 degrees and just fade everything!

Don't know if that's what you want to hear though :ears:

 

[Foxholer]

I would suggest you open your stance about 20 degrees and just fade everything!

Pretty sure a fade is dangerous on that hole!

Here's what's likely to be required if it goes to the right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDLhtVjU2RU&feature=player_embedded#

Same bird btw!

Edit: Screwed up the link, Send it bacl to the beginning/repeat.

 

[JustOne]

Yeh it looked like Fisher was trying to hit some kind of a pull-draw (just like the OP)... feet closed, clubface square... but I'm guessing he lost it a bit right as his shoulders were open.

Rock was POOR there... serves him right for having all that hair!

 

[chrisd]

I've cast my expert eye over the videos James and the biggest problem is clearly that Sene Valley Golf Club dont allow trousers with external pockets (such as cargo trousers) on the course

That will be the cause mate!

 

[Jimbooo]

Good looking swing that... for a fader....

There's lots of little things and compensations going on there, what is it you want to achieve?.... do you really want to go down the route of changing your swing and/or path?

It does look like you set up a little closed then pull-draw the ball, high hands help you stop the clubface turning over (so you don't just hook everything) but causes you to lose your spine angle.... but don't panic....

Thanks - what I want to achieve is to be able to consistently get the golf ball to go where I want it to go

I'm happy to change the swing/path to achieve that - I don't like the sound of making lots of compensations for "faults". I'm confused as to why you say "fader" as I rarely fade the ball - I usually draw it - is that because of the compensations?

 

[Jimbooo]

I've cast my expert eye over the videos James and the biggest problem is clearly that Sene Valley Golf Club dont allow trousers with external pockets (such as cargo trousers) on the course

That will be the cause mate!

That's why I play at 9 o'clock at night! I need those extra pockets for all the balls I carry!

 

[JustOne]

I'm confused as to why you say "fader" as I rarely fade the ball - I usually draw it - is that because of the compensations?

Your swing is out-to-in that's a faders swing... but you try desperately to keep the club coming from inside the line by coming down steep, high hands and a little bit of spine angle loss.

Your club goes back nicely... very nicely, but comes down steeper, in this pic is comes down in line with your left arm plane... it should (for a drawer) be closer to the right arm plane or at least on the same plane that you went up.
[click to enlarge...]



I like the look of your swing though, good rhythm... flowing... so I'd play a fade.

what was the conflicting advice you got?

 

[timchump]

Good looking swing that... for a fader....

There's lots of little things and compensations going on there, what is it you want to achieve?.... do you really want to go down the route of changing your swing and/or path?

It does look like you set up a little closed then pull-draw the ball, high hands help you stop the clubface turning over (so you don't just hook everything) but causes you to lose your spine angle.... but don't panic....

you have this guys swing and he does OK

(this one is good with sound!!)

[video=youtube;VDuebD2ZxCc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDuebD2ZxCc[/video]

[video=youtube;Ht1su1_ZsSY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht1su1_ZsSY[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpeX8uutKdQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9ec72x2zio

I would suggest you open your stance about 20 degrees and just fade everything!

Don't know if that's what you want to hear though :ears:

is ross fishers swing technically "over the top"?

to me it looks like his hands move towards the ball from the top giving the appearence of slightly OTT, but his shaft angle still flattens off

the O.P.'s swing looks like his hand move away from his body and his shaft is pretty steep to - unlike Ross?

 

[JustOne]

is ross fishers swing technically "over the top"?

to me it looks like his hands move towards the ball from the top giving the appearence of slightly OTT, but his shaft angle still flattens off

the O.P.'s swing looks like his hand move away from his body and his shaft is pretty steep to - unlike Ross?

Both have an OTT action, whether or not they then manage to steepen the plane sufficiently to keep the club coming from the inside is debatable.

In the picture I posted of the OP his shaft is almost vertical so the next thing that will happen is the clubhead will get outside the hands and that means the grip is facing left, the face is closing and a pull is on the cards regardless of his actual swingpath at impact.


Either of these two players could be swinging 2 degrees from the inside, straight or 2 degrees from the outside... it's almost impossible to tell without trackman.

That said fisher is hitting a wood off the deck.. even though he picks it clean off the turf he would have been swinging down by 1 or 2 degrees which means the face would be open and the ball would start to the right if his path was straight or from the inside... but it doesn't start right, it goes straight. D-plane pattern for a straight shot hit with a descending blow is slightly OUT-TO-IN...ie over the top. Without measuring Fisher appears to raise the hands/shaftplane.. if he's 46 degrees at address then he's 54 at impact.

If you watch the 1st few minutes of this video it'll show you that you can swing OTT, (plane base or Horizontal swing path as it's known is pointing left)... but the club still hits (just) from the inside as the impact is descending.... you need trackman to see this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sIQ-7DJJbU

as I said he could be in, straight or out... but his action is one that is OTT. If he doesn't want to change his action then I'd suggest playing straight or fading shots.


It's splitting hairs but (to me) both players have similar actions.


I've no idea the OP's h/cap but it could be anything from 18-scratch..(dependant on his chipping and putting) I've seen scratch golfers with worse actions.

Actions like this are the hardest to diagnose as you need to know the angle of attack.... as SR has done above it's easy to say he needs to swing more from the inside but it's 'possible' that he already is! I would say that he's VERY steep but changing everything from his shaft plane to (probably) his alignment is potentially a huge step. I'd just stop trying to play for the draw.

The reason I said above that I think the OP is slightly out-to-in is that he pulls his irons but when you remove the angle of attack (with the longer clubs) then he's prone to carve them a bit right.

 

[timchump]

Thanks for the reply, great post !

I have a very simlilar swing to the O.P, OTT, steep shaft but i can still easily hit from the inside starting the ball to the right.


I can play to a reasonable level, though i'm trying to change my action. I cringe everytime i see my swing, and kind of believe i can't get down to single figures with it.

I think the problem starts in the transistion, pulling the club down, steepening it, then i guess the rest of my downswing is recovering from this?

I'm trying to flatten the shaft more in transisition. With a feeling of the club way behind my body. Body leading more.

My question is
What are the downsides to an OTT motion that is recovered in the downsing?

Is the steeper angle of attack more inconsistent, less power ? etc

Thanks

 

[JustOne]

Thanks for the reply, great post !

I have a very simlilar swing to the O.P, OTT, steep shaft but i can still easily hit from the inside starting the ball to the right.


I can play to a reasonable level, though i'm trying to change my action. I cringe everytime i see my swing, and kind of believe i can't get down to single figures with it.

I think the problem starts in the transistion, pulling the club down, steepening it, then i guess the rest of my downswing is recovering from this?

I'm trying to flatten the shaft more in transisition. With a feeling of the club way behind my body. Body leading more.

My question is
What are the downsides to an OTT motion that is recovered in the downsing?

Is the steeper angle of attack more inconsistent, less power ? etc

Thanks

Most of the answers are in the thread... OTT makes you swing steep and yes it makes you more inconsistent as it's harder to start the ball in the right direction when approaching it from above ... you do also lose some power.

You're approach to 'hitting from the inside' worries me especially when you say "Feeling of the club way behind my body"... so much in fact I've made a couple of vids for you... and Jimbooo if he so wishes.

 

[timchump]

Thanks Just One, you're a legend!

Yes the club does feel way behind my body though my thinking was it maybe personal because its such a big swing change for me
I find i have to do this to let the club plane flatten and keep my hands close to my body.

I have a video of me experiment with it the range il upload later if you woldn't mind have a quick look.

Look forward to your video explanation.

 

[JustOne]

Thanks Just One, you're a legend!

I'll tell the wife! She'll be pleased

Here's the vid (in case you didn't notice)... 2nd one uploading.
http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?43664-Video-for-TimChump-(and-Jimbooo)

 

[SocketRocket]

I prefer the club to drop in the downswing 'slot' so that around halfway down the shaft, when viewed down the line, is on the same plane as the right forearm. Not a lot can go wrong from this position, it is the foundation of delivering the clubhead on a powerful inside path to the ball. It will not necessarily create a draw but if that's what you want it is a better position to be in. Steep downswing indicate a downswing started by the shoulders and throwing out the shaft.

 

[Jimbooo]

Thanks again guys!

The videos you posted were really helpful and I can see now how I'm coming over the top and why I might not always fade the ball doing this.

I went out tonight for an hour or so to try and fix coming OTT - kind of a quick experimental session. I don't know whether I'm on the right track but I hit 2 of the best drives I've ever hit in my life. This new way of swinging feels completely different, but nice - so I hope I'm doing it right!

Here are some new videos of my progress...

PW - DTL
http://youtu.be/bBJlxxuy10k
http://youtu.be/5WuB6l2GbhI (120fps)

9 Iron - DTL
http://youtu.be/ZVSTEwveuHk

Driver - DTL
http://youtu.be/YnNd3sKweCU
http://youtu.be/ZzJCyOunhXc (120fps)

Feedback greatfully received!

 

[SocketRocket]

WOW !!!!!! What a great improvement, you are really dropping the club into the slot on the downswing and getting the club nicely on plane. You should play some good golf with that swing.


Just one small thing: A little less knee flex so that you are in a more athletic stance will get you a bit more balanced. Well done.

 

[JustOne]

WOW !!!!!! What a great improvement, you are really dropping the club into the slot on the downswing and getting the club nicely on plane. You should play some good golf with that swing.


Just one small thing: A little less knee flex so that you are in a more athletic stance will get you a bit more balanced. Well done.

^
^
^

What he said..... WOW!




Can't fault the 9 iron swing :thup: ....well I could if I really tried but I'd need to see a face on vid

Just make sure your takeaway doesn't get too flat and your downswing doesn't either... but don't go getting all steep again!!

..and make sure you keep an eye on your alignment (don't get closed to the target).

did it help your draw?

(still want to know what conflicting advice you got... and what your h/cap is?)

 

[Jimbooo]

WOW !!!!!! What a great improvement, you are really dropping the club into the slot on the downswing and getting the club nicely on plane. You should play some good golf with that swing.


Just one small thing: A little less knee flex so that you are in a more athletic stance will get you a bit more balanced. Well done.

Cheers I'll give the knee-flex tweak a go next time i'm out.

^
^
^

What he said..... WOW!


Can't fault the 9 iron swing :thup: ....well I could if I really tried but I'd need to see a face on vid

Haha OK! Gimme a day or two and I'll upload one. I'm sure this is all too good to be true anyway.

Just make sure your takeaway doesn't get too flat and your downswing doesn't either... but don't go getting all steep again!!

This has been a real eye-opener for me. For the last few months I've been concentrating on other parts of my swing, I'd completely neglected the actual swing path - its not until someone points it out that you actually realise something is wrong.

..and make sure you keep an eye on your alignment (don't get closed to the target).

What's the reason for not getting closed? (is open ok?)

did it help your draw?

Well I only played about 10 shots tonight (wanted to get back for olympics opening ceremony) but I'll let you know after I try it out some more. The shots I played with the irons were nice draws, the driver swings were both bullet straight (and felt great).

(still want to know what conflicting advice you got... and what your h/cap is?)

My swing was a mess, one pro telling me to keep the hands in on the takeaway, the other telling me to keep them way out.... TBH I was messing about with my swing so much I think my body just got so confused that no 2 swings of mine were similar (too many changing swing thoughts). That's when I decided enough was enough and that I would try to build my own swing from scratch using books and online resources.

I don't have an official handicap - having 2 pre-school kids I don't ever play weekends, and week-days I might get one or two 9-hole rounds in at lunch times (or after work). It's VERY rare I get to play a full 18. I don't really play anyone either - I quite like just going round by myself as a bit of relaxation 'me' time. I think a year ago I was probably around 16-14 h/c. I'd guess I'm just about scraping into single figures now. It's my long game that lets me down more than my short game so I'm really hoping these changes help with that.

JO - I see you're going to the Cooden meet - would be good to be in your group! (smiffy hint hint)

Cheers