Utility iron for mid handicapper

[Voyager EMH]

I am old enough to remember "proper" 1 and 2 irons. I used to have a set of MacGregor persimmons and the first good set of clubs I got were Mizuno blades. A 1 or 2 iron was part of every respectable golf bag. But it defies logic that a shorter club is not easier to hit than a longer one. The length of club reduces the tolerance for accurately applying the centre of the club to the ball, for a start, and the loft of the club forgives, to a certain extent, errors in the strike.

The modern golf ball is also different, and shafts have changed,. The old low shot which then climbed in a parabola before falling out of the sky has been replaced by a medium height launch which flies on a flatter trajectory.

Could this be why one particular independent thinker prefers some of his irons to be the same length of shaft?

My view is that the shorter and more lofted club is easier to hit because the attempted shot is shorter.
The logic is that the longer shaft and less lofted club will hit it further. Defying or obeying logic in that respect is irrelevant. It is a mere fact.
Whether that makes the shot more difficult is a matter of perception and belief.
Some people live in fear of a 20-25 yard chip.
All a matter of perception of one's own ability and the reality of one's own ability.

 

[Ethan]

Could this be why one particular independent thinker prefers some of his irons to be the same length of shaft?

My view is that the shorter and more lofted club is easier to hit because the attempted shot is shorter.
The logic is that the longer shaft and less lofted club will hit it further. Defying or obeying logic in that respect is irrelevant. It is a mere fact.
Whether that makes the shot more difficult is a matter of perception and belief.
Some people live in fear of a 20-25 yard chip.
All a matter of perception of one's own ability and the reality of one's own ability.

The shot is only shorter with the shorter club because the length of the club alters the clubbed speed possible and the loft limits the distance that speed will move the ball. Loft also converts more of the impact into backspin which also forgives some aspects of poor contact.

The independent thinker has some funny ideas on science. He is not a scientist, he is a brand image. There is a massive amount of data available now on every shot a professional player hits. I don't know another Tour player using one-length clubs.

The fact that some of us can flub a short chip that requires little clubhead speed and only modestly decent contact still doesn't mean a 2-iron is as easy to hit as an 8-iron. There is some metaphysics involved, for sure, but quite a lot of real physics too.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I played with a 20-handicapper in a club comp recently. What I saw was fairly typical. I saw plenty of well hit tee shots and longer fairway shots.
I saw many occurrences of taking 4 shots to get down from under 150 yards. Biggest and most frequent mistakes were with the shorter irons.
Everyone has their reasons to believe what they believe.

 

[garyinderry]

Not being able to hit 1 2 3 and 4 irons well usually comes down to clubhead speed.

Most can make half decent contact with them but not all can hit them hard enough to make them to high enough to hold greens or get over trees.

 

[SteveJay]

Not being able to hit 1 2 3 and 4 irons well usually comes down to clubhead speed.

Most can make half decent contact with them but not all can hit them hard enough to make them to high enough to hold greens or get over trees.

Agreed, but maybe speed might not be such an issue for me as (a) we have no trees and (b) I won't be trying to land such a shot on the green - probably want to land it 20 yards short so it rolls all the way to the putting surface

 

[Orikoru]

Cheers Homer but I have a Ping G410 hybrid and even if I de loft it to 18 degrees, it can still climb high enough to be badly affected by a strong crosswind, especially off the tee. Might be easier to hit but isn't making my game easier as I can't control the flight.

That's a forgiving hybrid to be fair, designed with high-launching in mind. There are hybrids out there aimed for better players that may suit. For example the TaylorMade GAPR Mid looks like some kind of cross between hybrid and driving iron to me: https://www.golfbidder.co.uk/models/6920/Taylor_Made_Hybrid_GAPR_Mid_Hybrid.html The GAPR Lo looks more like a driving iron. I think after that they brought out the SIM DHY: https://www.golfbidder.co.uk/models/7758/Taylor_Made_Hybrid_SIM_DHY.html which is quite similar to the GAPR Mid.

 

[SteveJay]

That's a forgiving hybrid to be fair, designed with high-launching in mind. There are hybrids out there aimed for better players that may suit. For example the TaylorMade GAPR Mid looks like some kind of cross between hybrid and driving iron to me: https://www.golfbidder.co.uk/models/6920/Taylor_Made_Hybrid_GAPR_Mid_Hybrid.html The GAPR Lo looks more like a driving iron. I think after that they brought out the SIM DHY: https://www.golfbidder.co.uk/models/7758/Taylor_Made_Hybrid_SIM_DHY.html which is quite similar to the GAPR Mid.

Yea, the GAPR low is on my radar, not too dissimilar to the Ping 3 Crossover I had previously. I hit that OK so buying anything "blind" off E Bay etc I might be taking less risk with a Ping 2 Crossover, but think there may be better, lower flying (for me) options out there.

Thanks for all your thoughts and advice, it's been thought provoking. Will be trying a demo 2 iron on the course later this week so may well repot back after!!

 

[Voyager EMH]

Have you made your mind up yet?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255467542294?hash=item3b7b0d5716:g:cIcAAOSw3ExiSCWK

This one ends tomorrow. My first suggestion. Price includes delivery. A bid has come in. If you get it for less than £12, you have a bargain.

 

[SteveJay]

Have you made your mind up yet?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255467542294?hash=item3b7b0d5716:g:cIcAAOSw3ExiSCWK

This one ends tomorrow. My first suggestion. Price includes delivery. A bid has come in. If you get it for less than £12, you have a bargain.

No, have held off as i was going to test a demo one from our pro, but have been struck down with conjunctivitis so haven't played since Monday.

I did look at the club you mentioned but need a stiff shaft and like I said, don't really want to take a punt completely blind. A PP has an older 2 iron as he plays vintage clubs now and then. May also try his next week before deciding.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

@SteveJay
Can I ask; are you tall, is that why you hit a high ball?
I’m just over 6ft and generally hit it pretty high.
Even with a Ping 2 iron it goes higher than you’d expect.

If it’s a stinger type shot you’re after, it’s a technique and core strength issue, rather than club choice.

Not a judgement, just something to think about.

Otherwise, if I were you, I’d look at hollow head irons such as TM p790, maybe the 3 iron.

 

[Dereedwa]

Sorry to hijack but didn’t want to start a new thread. I’m looking at replacing my 3 (19deg) & 4 hybrid (22deg) with a 7 wood (21 deg but preferably adjustable). I seem to recall a thread on this posted at some point but can’t find it? Has anyone done this and how has it gone if you have? I’ve just had a quick look for 2nd hand ones and the ping g425 is £200?! Was looking for something a little cheaper than that!

Hi Larry I have got both options depending how I’m feeling and on the course I’m playing.
I have 4,3,2 hybrids and 3,5, 7 Ping K15 woods.
These woods are quality and can be picked up for peanuts on ebay.
In general the woods go a touch further and higher.
The 7 wood is also great in semi rough, worth taking a look at.

 

[Backsticks]

Not being able to hit 1 2 3 and 4 irons well usually comes down to clubhead speed.

Most can make half decent contact with them but not all can hit them hard enough to make them to high enough to hold greens or get over trees.

This.
A mid hc player doesnt have the speed for a low loft iron. They are kidding themselves if they think any iron below 24 or 25 deg can help them. Taking driver speed as reference, I would guess you need at least a stock 95mph driver speed to benefit from any iron below 24deg. You just havent the club speed to launch it.

 

[Orikoru]

This.
A mid hc player doesnt have the speed for a low loft iron. They are kidding themselves if they think any iron below 24 or 25 deg can help them. Taking driver speed as reference, I would guess you need at least a stock 95mph driver speed to benefit from any iron below 24deg. You just havent the club speed to launch it.

Agreed. That's why my longest iron is a 6 iron and I don't own a 3 wood.

So many players out there carrying 4 and 5 irons, that if they actually did launch monitor testing they'd probably find the distances identical to their 6. Just with a lower flight, but slightly less carry.

 

[Jigger]

Love my mizuno JPX 2 iron in links course. Great little stinger.

My mate had a go and hit it 30yards past his driver

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

Agreed. That's why my longest iron is a 6 iron and I don't own a 3 wood.

So many players out there carrying 4 and 5 irons, that if they actually did launch monitor testing they'd probably find the distances identical to their 6. Just with a lower flight, but slightly less carry.

Interestingly, that was me - up until I got new irons with fitted shafts 2 years ago. Whilst my old 3, 4 and 5 iron had naturally different trajectories/roll out, I was probably only carrying gaining an extra 5 yards of carry from each club (if that!) - my 6 iron is typically my 160 yard club, my 5 iron was 170... my 4 iron 175, 3 iron 180 maybe.

Whilst there's not a real difference in carry numbers for shorter irons with the new sticks, my 5 iron is now 170-175, 4 iron 185ish, 3 iron 195-200.

 

[Backsticks]

5 irons and below are obsolete for the average golfer above single digits.
In the past, all such golfers carried and could make a reasonable fist of hitting a 4 iron. But it had 28deg on it !
Today, many 7 irons have less. An arms race 4 iron has 19 or 20 : a 2 iron of old. The handicap golfer of pre 1990s knew well enough not to try to hit such a weapon. But people are slow to give up on old customs. Why are even high hc golfers persisting with trying them today. Irons down to 25 lowest, and even a few higher - whatever the sole tells you. Then downwards to hybrids and gentlemen's persuaders.

 

[Orikoru]

Interestingly, that was me - up until I got new irons with fitted shafts 2 years ago. Whilst my old 3, 4 and 5 iron had naturally different trajectories/roll out, I was probably only carrying gaining an extra 5 yards of carry from each club (if that!) - my 6 iron is typically my 160 yard club, my 5 iron was 170... my 4 iron 175, 3 iron 180 maybe.

Whilst there's not a real difference in carry numbers for shorter irons with the new sticks, my 5 iron is now 170-175, 4 iron 185ish, 3 iron 195-200.

I had something similar but on a much weaker level. In my old irons I couldn't hit the 6 either, now I can.

 

[Jason.H]

I’ve never seen anyone above a 2 handicap impress me with long iron ball striking. An 18 degree hybrid is what works for me.

 

[HeftyHacker]

I’ve never seen anyone above a 2 handicap impress me with long iron ball striking. An 18 degree hybrid is what works for me.

I said it on another thread but watching my 7 handicapper mate hit his 3 iron really is a thing of beauty - penetrating ballflight that just seems to rise and rise with a tiny fade and regularly longer than my drives.

On the launch monitor he was getting about 140 ballspeed out of it and carrying 230.

Having said that the way he's scoring at the moment I don't think he'll stay a 7 handicapper for long.

 

[srixon 1]

The club doesn’t know if it is being swung by Tiger or a chomper, so if you can try before you buy have a go. You just might be surprised.