Unusual, I know, but I'm posing...

[Leftie]

...a rules question instead of answering one.

My ball lands in a bunker and rolls into a fox/rabbit hole on the far side and comes to rest within the hole, on sand but under the grass margin. The ball was 100% unplayable as it lay.

The options discussed were..

a) Ball declared unplayable. Drop in bunker under 1 shot penalty.

b) Ball in animal scaping/burrow in bunker. Free drop in bunker.

c) Drop outside bunker nearest point of relief not nearer the hole under 1 shot penalty

d) Free drop outside bunker nearest point of relief not nearer the hole

Note. For c) or d) if the ball were to be dropped directly above where it originally lay (nearest point etc) then it would have rolled straight back in to the bunker.

My playing partners "allowed" me a free drop in the bunker which I did just to keep the game moving on, but I did disagree with them. Didn't matter in the end as I still won the hole with a 5 nett 4

Which of the above (or none?) should apply - and why.

(I haven't yet looked at the Decisions for the correct answer)

 

[drawboy]

An animal scrape or burrow comes under abnormal ground conditions rule 25. In a bunker relief can be taken and the nearest point of relief will be in the bunker as a free drop. However under penalty of 1 stroke a drop can be taken keeping the line where the ball was between the hole and where the ball is dropped with no limit to how far behind the bunker the ball is dropped.

 

[SammmeBee]

d) - free drop outside the bunker using the point directly above the ball as the nearest point of relief.....as the ball is not actually 'in' the bunker.....

 

[Leftie]

That was my interpretation Sam.

The margin of the bunker extends vertically downwards so as the ball was effectively lying under the grassed area it was past the margin of the bunker so should have been dropped outside.

Wasn't worth having an arguement though

 

[Imurg]

d) - free drop outside the bunker using the point directly above the ball as the nearest point of relief.....as the ball is not actually 'in' the bunker.....

First impression was that this is the right ruling. Difficult one in the heat of battle to convince though.

 

[drawboy]

Leftie, just for my understanding here, it landed in the bunker then did it A. stay in the bunker in a rabbit hole or B. roll out of the bunker beyond its perimeter into a hole ?

 

[Golfman]

I'd say the correct ruling would be b). Stand to be corrected though.

 

[CannyFifer]

Q. The entrance to a burrowing animal hole is out of bounds, but most of the burrow is in bounds under the course. A ball enters the hole from out of bounds and comes to rest in bounds under ground classified as through the green. What is the procedure?

A. Under Rule 25-1b, the player may drop the ball, without penalty, within one club-length of the point on the ground directly above its position in the burrow. In such cases, vertical distance is disregarded in applying the Rules.
Maybe helps, mabe not

 

[clubchamp07]

I would go with "b" aswell.

 

[SammmeBee]

Decision 25-1b/25:

Q: A ball enters a burrowing animal hole in a greenside bunker and is found underneath the putting green. As the ball is not in the bunker or on the putting green, is relief taken in accordance with Rule 25-1b(i), i.e. through the green?

A: Yes. The player would drop the ball without penalty on a part of the course through the green within one club-length of the nearest point to its position in the burrowing animal hole that avoids interference from the condition and is not in a hazard, not on a putting green and not nearer the hole. (Revised)

 

[CannyFifer]

Is thst not what I posted Sam

 

[SammmeBee]

Is thst not what I posted Sam

No....

 

[CannyFifer]

Is thst not what I posted Sam

No....

How No

 

[drawboy]

I stand by my original reply B. Free drop still in the bunker, or penalty drop outside far back as you like with the burrow in line with the flag.

 

[Leftie]

Just to clarify DB.

The burrow was in the far face of the bunker (viewed as the shot was played)and it extended towards the green but under the grassed banked sides of the bunker. The ball ran across the sand and into the burrow finishing under the grass.

As the margin of the bunker extends vertically down, the ball came to rest beyond the margin and could therefore be dropped without penalty within 1 clublength above the spot where it came to rest, not nearer the hole.

The two examples above seem to me to confirm my thoughts.

 

[RGDave]

I think we've all been in positions like this. Isn't it one of those situations where the rules might work for or against the player?
A ball in an animal scraping or burrow is entitled to free relief, I guess the unusual question here is has the ball rolled into a place (sub terrain) where is is actually no longer within perimeter of the bunker. Just to throw an idea out there...without the scraping/burrow, the ball would almost certainly be in the bunker, so the fairest drop ought to be in the bunker?...but that's another story!

 

[USER1999]

I say play it as it lies.

Especially considering the player involved.

 

[Swinger]

A

 

[viscount17]

d), drop twice, then place

the ball is not in the bunker (vertical rule), it may have been once but it left it, then the scraping/hole gets a free drop.

 

[shagster]

reading the various opinions, it seems like D, but would you have taken the same line if it was in a burrow, but out of bounds