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SwingsitlikeHogan

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Nothing. Enjoy your golf, that's all.
Ok - so if I make a mistake entering my scorecard electronically and I am unable to correct it or to get it corrected - and as I result my WHS HI goes up and consequently my playing handicap for a comp is higher than it should have been, then I am OK and will not get DQd for playing off the 'wrong' handicap and can get my scorecard corrected as soon as I am able.

Well...if that is the case then so be it - but it doesn't feel right.
 

Colin L

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Ok - so if I make a mistake entering my scorecard electronically and I am unable to correct it or to get it corrected - and as I result my WHS HI goes up and consequently my playing handicap for a comp is higher than it should have been, then I am OK and will not get DQd for playing off the 'wrong' handicap and can get my scorecard corrected as soon as I am able.

Well...if that is the case then so be it - but it doesn't feel right.

Relax. The situation is not of your making, not in your power to alter and so not your responsibility.
 

rulefan

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Ok - so if I make a mistake entering my scorecard electronically and I am unable to correct it or to get it corrected - and as I result my WHS HI goes up and consequently my playing handicap for a comp is higher than it should have been, then I am OK and will not get DQd for playing off the 'wrong' handicap and can get my scorecard corrected as soon as I am able.

Well...if that is the case then so be it - but it doesn't feel right.
If your h'cap committee couldn't alter your score in the ISV software today no change would be made to the WHS until overnight the following night.
 

mikejohnchapman

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If your h'cap committee couldn't alter your score in the ISV software today no change would be made to the WHS until overnight the following night.
Are you sure? If I make a change to a card in error for a previous day the HI gets recalculated immediately whether I do it on Club V1 or the EG application.

An interesting question is if I change someone's handicap by adding a score or updating one in error whilst they are playing - which HI get's used when entering the score? The one when the started or the one at the end?
 

Swango1980

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Ok - so if I make a mistake entering my scorecard electronically and I am unable to correct it or to get it corrected - and as I result my WHS HI goes up and consequently my playing handicap for a comp is higher than it should have been, then I am OK and will not get DQd for playing off the 'wrong' handicap and can get my scorecard corrected as soon as I am able.

Well...if that is the case then so be it - but it doesn't feel right.
Just, from a practical / IT perspective, if a player truly knew there was a mistake in their handicap, could they inform the competition secretary. If they knew about this, could they delay closing the competition until they, or the handicap secretary adjusts the previous mistaken score. Once done, that players handicap would be updated. Would this then adjust their handicap once the competition was closed and results shown, or would the system use the handicap the player had when they registered before teeing off?
 

rulefan

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Are you sure? If I make a change to a card in error for a previous day the HI gets recalculated immediately whether I do it on Club V1 or the EG application.
The change may be made in the app or local ISV system but the link to the WHS doesn't take place until overnight.

An interesting question is if I change someone's handicap by adding a score or updating one in error whilst they are playing - which HI get's used when entering the score? The one when the started or the one at the end?
Given my comment above I would guess it is all sorted out when the data hits the WHS.

The ISV systems only speak to the WHS overnight and have no handicapping functions themselves.
 

jim8flog

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So if I know my HI on WHS is 'wrong' given it is based upon a mistake in my entering my scorecard and I realise this before I play in a comp, but I am unable to get hold of someone to correct the mistake - what do I do?

A player is not responsible for handicap errors caused by admin errors made by a committee.

You always play according the WHS figure shown on your account on the day of a comp.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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A player is not responsible for handicap errors caused by admin errors made by a committee.

You always play according the WHS figure shown on your account on the day of a comp.
Even if I know it is 'wrong', and even though I know that as a result WHS has me getting an extra shot in a comp or I am giving/getting fewer in a match. And I won. I just tell my beaten opponent - sorry - but I had to go by WHS. And not a h/cap error by a committee - but HC error caused by IT and that could not be remediated in time.

I of course understand and accept the clear guidance being given on here by those with a full understanding of managing hcaps (I have no role) - but as a player I am surprised , as it just doesn't seem right that I could knowingly play a comp or match off what I know to be an incorrect handicap - and that that is OK.

Ah well.
 
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Swango1980

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A player is not responsible for handicap errors caused by admin errors made by a committee.

You always play according the WHS figure shown on your account on the day of a comp.
Mind you, if a player submits an incorrect score from general play, and then discovers that error, I'd say that was harsh to call that an admin error by the Committee.

I get what SLH is saying, albeit probably a rare event. He is saying he is fully aware before the comp starts that his handicap is (likely) too high. Obviously, if he won the comp then it might result in a few frustrated players, if they top found out his handicap was incorrect, and he admitted this pre round and wanted to change it.

This is why I asked my previous question. A player shouldn't be expected to self adjust, and so they are not. But, in this specific situation, assuming there is no one to correct the error pre comp, surely his best bet is to relay the message to the competition secretary before the competition is closed? That seems like the most sensible option.
 

jim8flog

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I get what SLH is saying, albeit probably a rare event. He is saying he is fully aware before the comp starts that his handicap is (likely) too high.

There is nothing wrong with that player declaring his handicap lower than what it is. It is only the other way round that might create a problem. They could roughly calculate and put that on the card and it would have to accepted as the correct handicap provided it is lower than their actual handicap. They could bring this to the attention of the organisers before handing the card in.
 

Imurg

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There is nothing wrong with that player declaring his handicap lower than what it is. It is only the other way round that might create a problem. They could roughly calculate and put that on the card and it would have to accepted as the correct handicap provided it is lower than their actual handicap. They could bring this to the attention of the organisers before handing the card in.
So....self-cutting but not self-cutting......
 

jim8flog

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So....self-cutting but not self-cutting......

Do you mean as the second part self adjustment (which is what it used to called).

As you are probably aware there is no penalty for having a handicap on the card which is lower than the players actual handicap and the card written on the card must be used.
 

rulefan

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Do you mean as the second part self adjustment (which is what it used to called).

As you are probably aware there is no penalty for having a handicap on the card which is lower than the players actual handicap and the card written on the card must be used.
There is a difference in the handicap declared on the card for the competition (PH) and the one (CH) which WHS has knowledge of and used for score differential handicapping calculations
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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Mind you, if a player submits an incorrect score from general play, and then discovers that error, I'd say that was harsh to call that an admin error by the Committee.

I get what SLH is saying, albeit probably a rare event. He is saying he is fully aware before the comp starts that his handicap is (likely) too high. Obviously, if he won the comp then it might result in a few frustrated players, if they top found out his handicap was incorrect, and he admitted this pre round and wanted to change it.

This is why I asked my previous question. A player shouldn't be expected to self adjust, and so they are not. But, in this specific situation, assuming there is no one to correct the error pre comp, surely his best bet is to relay the message to the competition secretary before the competition is closed? That seems like the most sensible option.
...and if it is a match I am playing in and not a comp...if WHS has me with a HI that gives me a CH of, say, 10 when I know it should be 9. Do I self-declare a CH of 9? Because that is what I'd be inclined to do.
 

Swango1980

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...and if it is a match I am playing in and not a comp...if WHS has me with a HI that gives me a CH of, say, 10 when I know it should be 9. Do I self-declare a CH of 9? Because that is what I'd be inclined to do.

I guess one thing to remember is that, when we talked about self adjusting your handicap pre WHS, it would have been when an earlier score had not yet been submitted on the system.

So, in your case, it is not the same. Your earlier score HAS been put in the system, it was just wrong. So, pre WHS had your earlier score also been wrong, what would the player responsibility have been? I suppose this would have been very rare, due to fact few general play scores were submitted (and even if they were, they had to be verified by Committee first), and even if something slipped through the net chances are it would make little difference due to Max of 0.1 increase.

Interesting if you knew you shot an excellent score the day before, but for some reason you had forgotten to submit the score afterwards. You might end up submitting the score a few days later, but until then play off the higher handicap. Obviously the Committee would need to consider action if this was deliberate.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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I guess one thing to remember is that, when we talked about self adjusting your handicap pre WHS, it would have been when an earlier score had not yet been submitted on the system.

So, in your case, it is not the same. Your earlier score HAS been put in the system, it was just wrong. So, pre WHS had your earlier score also been wrong, what would the player responsibility have been? I suppose this would have been very rare, due to fact few general play scores were submitted (and even if they were, they had to be verified by Committee first), and even if something slipped through the net chances are it would make little difference due to Max of 0.1 increase.

Interesting if you knew you shot an excellent score the day before, but for some reason you had forgotten to submit the score afterwards. You might end up submitting the score a few days later, but until then play off the higher handicap. Obviously the Committee would need to consider action if this was deliberate.
In my case the issue arose due to my submitting my score electronically. In past times that would have been done by the handicap sec or such as a golf or completions manager, and indeed may not have been centerally processed as is now the case with WHS making my adjustments easier.

Anyway it seems that the answer is that we go by what WHS says...regardless of any known mistakes. Just seems a bit inconsistent with any rules in respect of playing off the wrong handicap. But now I know.
 

Colin L

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In my case the issue arose due to my submitting my score electronically. In past times that would have been done by the handicap sec or such as a golf or completions manager, and indeed may not have been centerally processed as is now the case with WHS making my adjustments easier.

Anyway it seems that the answer is that we go by what WHS says...regardless of any known mistakes. Just seems a bit inconsistent with any rules in respect of playing off the wrong handicap. But now I know.

In rules terms, you can't be playing off the wrong handicap if you are playing off what the WHS record says is your handicap.

One thing that puzzles me, though, is why you refer to the error's being caused by IT. Was it not caused by human error in inputting the score? ;)
 
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