Universal Credit

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yes, savings. Plenty do you know.

Lockdown has not changed the system, its not even changed that some self employed people get late payments. Its not the government's fault, nor frankly their issue, the system is the same system as it was a year ago.

Stop blaming lockdown and the government for your son's predicament.

I'm not - and he's not in a predicament. His career is in a mess - he will sort something else out - he already is - as many will do. But there are many in his situation who do not have a Bank of MaD to get support from meanwhile. I was simply thinking that when registering for UC an individual could have stated income due - and as long as that was less than £6k then that income could have been classified as savings - and it would have helped them over that first 5weeks to the first UC payment.

And that's the main point of what I've actually been posting about.

 

[Hobbit]

I'm not - and he's not in a predicament. His career is in a mess - he will sort something else out - he already is - as many will do. But there are many in his situation who do not have a Bank of MaD to get support from meanwhile. I was simply thinking that when registering for UC an individual could have stated income due - and as long as that was less than £6k then that income could have been classified as savings - and it would have helped them over that first 5weeks to the first UC payment.

And that's the main point of what I've actually been posting about.

But as you’ve just said, it’s “income.” Its not savings, and income impacts on UC.

I dare say if he’d took his papers into the job centre and it showed he’d just received an income his UC would have been impacted back then.

And let’s be honest here, there’s no way on God’s earth your son would have saved that money. When was the last time he saved anything of note? Certainly not in the last few years as according to you he’s always broke. Therefore it was/is income. And the rules are....

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The income/savings argument is very simply in respect of the work shut-down circumstances of the lockdown. No wider than that.

And it's not that we shouldn't be able to have £6000 of savings to still qualify for full UC - for some £6000 in savings is unimaginable. But for income that any individual was due at the end of March 2020 but for whatever reason was delayed until after the individual registered for UC - that final income could surely have been considered by the UC system in the same way as £6k of savings...that's all.

No, No and No again, as you say it’s income, to want to use it as savings is a lie.

I sympathise with anyone in his predicament, but to want to pretend it’s savings rather than income is not on.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

No, No and No again, as you say it’s income, to want to use it as savings is a lie.

I sympathise with anyone in his predicament, but to want to pretend it’s savings rather than income is not on.

I have no experience in the benefit system so I might be wrong.

I can see his point, his lad has earnt his wages, paid the correct amount of tax on them just not received the payment when it was due which is way out of his control.

It's not right he should lose out imo but cannot expect the UC system to change the rules just to suit him.

On another point, Do people really expect someone to throw away a career at the first sign of adversity after putting so many years into it?

 

[SocketRocket]

I have no experience in the benefit system so I might be wrong.

I can see his point, his lad has earnt his wages, paid the correct amount of tax on them just not received the payment when it was due which is way out of his control.

It's not right he should lose out imo but cannot expect the UC system to change the rules just to suit him.

On another point, Do people really expect someone to throw away a career at the first sign of adversity after putting so many years into it?

When needs must you have to do what is necessary, you can always go back to it when the time is right.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I have no experience in the benefit system so I might be wrong.

I can see his point, his lad has earnt his wages, paid the correct amount of tax on them just not received the payment when it was due which is way out of his control.

It's not right he should lose out imo but cannot expect the UC system to change the rules just to suit him.

On another point, Do people really expect someone to throw away a career at the first sign of adversity after putting so many years into it?

He’s not losing out Stu, if he’d of got paid this money at the beginning he wouldn’t of been entitled to, or needed UC.
But you legally have to declare income and as it has come in whilst drawing UC he asked why he couldn’t call it savings and still get UC for that period as well, ie, get 2 lots of income, one off the back of the tax payer.

I agree about his career, but until successful enough to fund himself maybe his dad shouldn’t share his woes on a public forum.

 

[Wolf]

I have no experience in the benefit system so I might be wrong.

I can see his point, his lad has earnt his wages, paid the correct amount of tax on them just not received the payment when it was due which is way out of his control.

It's not right he should lose out imo but cannot expect the UC system to change the rules just to suit him.

On another point, Do people really expect someone to throw away a career at the first sign of adversity after putting so many years into it?

No, but over 2 years of it being posted about on this forum alone, not to mention in those posts it suggests that adversity has been going on a lot longer than that would alone suggest some harsh lessons need to be learned.

There's nothing to stop him getting work in another industry and carrying on his passion on the side until such time it becomes financially viable to go full time again.

 

[chrisd]

Anyone working in the entertainment, media business is hard pressed to earn a decent living. Both of my sisters boys went into the tv/film industry on leaving uni and the only way they survived until they had made good contacts and worked up from the bottom was courtesy of the bank of mum and dad, luckily they had more than enough to support them.

Silh's son would know this and I doubt he would be in a position to save any money but I agree with others, he should have looked for other work as soon as he could in the current climate and then reverted back as soon as was feasible. Funny that my Tesco delivery driver told me this morning that a month before lockdown he had just signed a lease on a pub and even before a month was out he had to deliver groceries to earn money to live on.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

He’s not losing out Stu, if he’d of got paid this money at the beginning he wouldn’t of been entitled to, or needed UC.
But you legally have to declare income and as it has come in whilst drawing UC he asked why he couldn’t call it savings and still get UC for that period as well, ie, get 2 lots of income, one off the back of the tax payer.

I agree about his career, but until successful enough to fund himself maybe his dad shouldn’t share his woes on a public forum.

Again excuse my ignorance but I genuinely have no idea of benefits.... Hypothetically now, had he been paid (£900) on time and applied for UC are you saying he wouldnt qualify for a giro? But if he had £6k in the bank as savings he would?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Again excuse my ignorance but I genuinely have no idea of benefits.... Hypothetically now, had he been paid (£900) on time and applied for UC are you saying he wouldnt qualify for a giro? But if he had £6k in the bank as savings he would?

You have to declare income and savings, you are allowed up savings of up to 6K (or 16K for a couple) and it doesn’t affect your application, for every £250.00 over 6K you lose £1.00 off the benefit.

UC is meant to help towards Living costs if you are unemployed or on a low income, there are other benefits and entitlements, but they depend on the individual circumstances.

He wouldn’t of qualified for UC for the period the £900 was meant to cover. He’d get a work allowance before UC is reduced by 63p for every £1.00 you earn.

It’s not straightforward as UC can include housing allowance or other benefits etc:

 

[Deleted member 1740]

No, but over 2 years of it being posted about on this forum alone, not to mention in those posts it suggests that adversity has been going on a lot longer than that would alone suggest some harsh lessons need to be learned.

There's nothing to stop him getting work in another industry and carrying on his passion on the side until such time it becomes financially viable to go full time again.

You have a point.

I dont know the industry inside out but to be successful I doubt you could do it "on the side" as you suggest. I get the industry is one where you need to have proven experience to be really successful and for a lad of his age it will take time to get that experience. I dont envy his position to be fair.

At least he's paid into the pot prior to this

 

[Deleted member 1740]

You have to declare income and savings, you are allowed up savings of up to 6K (or 16K for a couple) and it doesn’t affect your application, for every £250.00 over 6K you lose £1.00 off the benefit.

UC is meant to help towards Living costs if you are unemployed or on a low income, there are other benefits and entitlements, but they depend on the individual circumstances.

He wouldn’t of qualified for UC for the period the £900 was meant to cover. He’d get a work allowance before UC is reduced by 63p for every £1.00 you earn.

It’s not straightforward as UC can include housing allowance or other benefits etc:

That seems mad that having £6k savings doesnt affect your application but a late payment of taxed wages (£900) would.

Anyway, my head hurting now so I'll bow out.

Good luck SILH you're getting no sympathy here ??

 

[GreiginFife]

That seems mad that having £6k savings doesnt affect your application but a late payment of taxed wages (£900) would.

Anyway, my head hurting now so I'll bow out.

Good luck SILH you're getting no sympathy here ??

Self employed so no tax will have been paid. I may be paid later but for now that is gross income.
But apparently being self employed is a life choice and we just have to take the drawbacks that come with that on the chin because its what we chose to do.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Self employed so no tax will have been paid. I may be paid later but for now that is gross income.
But apparently being self employed is a life choice and we just have to take the drawbacks that come with that on the chin because its what we chose to do.

Doubt that unless he's set up as a LTD company then he'd be entitled to furlough,no?

I'd be surprised if he's been paid gross....does the arts and entertainment business have anything like CIS?

Self employment isnt a choice in the construction industry, almost everything is subbied out these days. I'd expect the arts and entertainment to be the same.

 

[GreiginFife]

Doubt that unless he's set up as a LTD company then he'd be entitled to furlough,no?

I'd be surprised if he's been paid gross....does the arts and entertainment business have anything like CIS?

Self employment isnt a choice in the construction industry, almost everything is subbied out these days. I'd expect the arts and entertainment to be the same.

Sole trader set up in January, or so another thread implies.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Sole trader set up in January, or so another thread implies.

Ah right theres more?? ?

I'd expect some sort of tax payment scheme that would make all payments from agents/agency's deduct 20% at source.

 

[GreiginFife]

Ah right theres more?? ?

I'd expect some sort of tax payment scheme that would make all payments from agents/agency's deduct 20% at source.

Not sure its an industry as scrupulous as that. But hey ho.

 

[drdel]

This thread is just repeating.

IMO the OP has stopped listening and is now gone into denial.

Any sums recieved for 'work done is income, business operating costs are deductible, that is all that concerns the HMRC and others.

Over a year ago I warned the entertainment game is fickle and strewn with bankrupt businesses: many by design. I strongly advised over a year ago that "the first loss is the best loss" : the OP's son obviously does not have capital reserves to survive in the sector where late payment is the norm, nepotism and internships are prevalent.

I have a few friends who are agents and promoters in this game. The harsh reality is he'd need to have enough capital fo finance himself for at least a year and be prepared for 'dry' spells of 4 or 5 months.

Move on and do it as a hobby.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This thread is just repeating.

IMO the OP has stopped listening and is now gone into denial.

Any sums recieved for 'work done is income, business operating costs are deductible, that is all that concerns the HMRC and others.

Over a year ago I warned the entertainment game is fickle and strewn with bankrupt businesses: many by design. I strongly advised over a year ago that "the first loss is the best loss" : the OP's son obviously does not have capital reserves to survive in the sector where late payment is the norm, nepotism and internships are prevalent.

I have a few friends who are agents and promoters in this game. The harsh reality is he'd need to have enough capital fo finance himself for at least a year and be prepared for 'dry' spells of 4 or 5 months.

Move on and do it as a hobby.

Which is what he is doing at the moment as he looks for a new career, but you'll note that that is not what my OP was about. It was about how one very specific UC assessment rule would impact individuals in the unprecedented and unforeseen circumstances of the lockdown.

And just as it happens...a report out today...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53599763

 

[Slab]

You are joking...savings...you do know that a huge number of people don't have £100 to their name at the end of every month. This may be from 2016 but I doubt things are much different today.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37504449

And yes - the self-employed expect some uncertainly about when money is received. 1] My point is that in the circumstances of the lockdown and so many having to claim UC - the UC system might have been relexed to recognise the issue of the self-employed and the timing of their last income. Maybe considered it as savings...

My point is not about the level of UC. It is not about the looking for work, or indeed the support that those on UC get in identifying training and opportunities. It's not about any of these - or indeed anything to do with UC in normal times. 2] It's simply about the final income payment for work prior to registering for UC as an individual's job goes down the plughole - especially in the cliff-edge circumstances of the lockdown. That's all.

1] If as you say your son never considered/used any of his previous self employed earnings as savings why should the UC calculation consider the last one as savings?
2] Same thing; By your own admission All his previous income/payments went down the plughole too, why change the UC system for this last bit of income?

Your solution is way way bigger than the problem