TV commentators and the Rules

[Colin L]

Watching the Open on Sky TV today, I was astonished to hear a commentator making complete sense on a rules matter. You should watch out for him - I reckon he has a future in front of him. Goes by the name of Andy McFee.
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[jim8flog]

That was one thing about golf on the BBC. A rules official was part of the commentary team.

Too many ex pro players now commentators made it abundantly clear why they needed to call in a ref for the most basic of rules when they played.

 

[salfordlad]

Watching the Open on Sky TV today, I was astonished to hear a commentator making complete sense on a rules matter. You should watch out for him - I reckon he has a future in front of him. Goes by the name of Andy McFee.
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It would be a fine thing if the major networks employed such expertise as Andy's more, they would actually be making a valuable contribution to the sport that they are taking their income from.

 

[North Mimms]

Just as well they have Andy since Wayne Riley (I think) didn't seem to know what happens if you hole out accidentally into the wrong hole on a dual green.

 

[chrisd]

Andy was very handy when explaining the "line of sight" rule when BDC decided to come back and drop on line , then after dropping, take a line of sight relief, whilst the commentator (Paul Mcginley I think) was saying that the playing public would be up in arms that they don't get the same relief . He explained that rule very well

 

[Billysboots]

If BT Sport can justify employing Peter Walton to explain the rules of football, which are a piece of cake in comparison to golf, then I’m sure Sky could make a rules expert such as Andy a regular member of their team.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If BT Sport can justify employing Peter Walton to explain the rules of football, which are a piece of cake in comparison to golf, then I’m sure Sky could make a rules expert such as Andy a regular member of their team.

Not sure there is much need for one within the Sky commentary team on a regular basis

How often do we see a rules issue during the broadcast- maybe twice at most and prob some days none at all , where as in football it’s every other minute

 

[Billysboots]

Not sure there is much need for one within the Sky commentary team on a regular basis

How often do we see a rules issue during the broadcast- maybe twice at most and prob some days none at all , where as in football it’s every other minute

But the vast, vast majority of the times BT Sport bring Peter Walton’s expertise to the table the rule being discussed does not need a retired referee to explain it.

It would be useful to have a rules official on hand for golf rules issues. Even if it’s just the majors to start off with. I’d rather that than have to endure McGinley and the equally awful Laura Davies.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But the vast, vast majority of the times BT Sport bring Peter Walton’s expertise to the table the rule being discussed does not need a retired referee to explain it.

It would be useful to have a rules official on hand for golf rules issues. Even if it’s just the majors to start off with. I’d rather that than have to endure McGinley and the equally awful Laura Davies.

In 4 days coverage goes many “rules issues” have we seen ? 1 maybe 2 , you could go a whole tournament without seeing one issue

And even the two issues seen were pretty self explanatory - a rules referee 9 times out of 10 just walks around and has no need for any involvement- in football they are key and always involved hence why one is in the studio

 

[salfordlad]

Andy was very handy when explaining the "line of sight" rule when BDC decided to come back and drop on line , then after dropping, take a line of sight relief, whilst the commentator (Paul Mcginley I think) was saying that the playing public would be up in arms that they don't get the same relief . He explained that rule very well

I'd be surprised if there was a single golf TV commentator, outside an expert guest like Andy, that would understand or could capably explain the TIO Local Rule relief processes. And there is little reason for the playing public to feel jealous, TIOs (grandstands/sponsor signs and the like) are not put there for the playing public's general play.

 

[wjemather]

Not sure there is much need for one within the Sky commentary team on a regular basis

How often do we see a rules issue during the broadcast- maybe twice at most and prob some days none at all , where as in football it’s every other minute

Disagree. Almost every broadcast involves at least one incident where the (ex-)touring pro on commentary gets the rules hopelessly wrong - even for the simplest and most common scenarios.

At the very least, almost all the Sky commentary team need basic rules education - having an expert on hand would be better still.

 

[Billysboots]

In 4 days coverage goes many “rules issues” have we seen ? 1 maybe 2 , you could go a whole tournament without seeing one issue

And even the two issues seen were pretty self explanatory - a rules referee 9 times out of 10 just walks around and has no need for any involvement- in football they are key and always involved hence why one is in the studio

None of which means that a former rules official could not be incorporated into a wider commentary team. Not just for their knowledge of the rules, but also what goes on the other side of the ropes. Their rules expertise would not be the only string to their bow.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

None of which means that a former rules official could not be incorporated into a wider commentary team. Not just for their knowledge of the rules, but also what goes on the other side of the ropes. Their rules expertise would not be the only string to their bow.

They are rules officials - what other side of the rope ?‍

What else would they bring beyond explaining a golf rule ?‍

People are watching the event to see the golf , and listen to the golf insight , people want to hear the insight of how shots are played and what someone like Faldo thinks etc

There are a very small minority that love the rules etc.

I do agree with the comment above about the commentary team being more clued up about the rules

 

[Billysboots]

They are rules officials - what other side of the rope ?‍

What else would they bring beyond explaining a golf rule ?‍

Oh Phil, use your imagination. They interact with players on a daily basis. Do you not think their knowledge of what goes into running a tour event, their knowledge of the players, their caddies and so on might be even remotely interesting? They walk the courses inside the ropes at major championships for heaven’s sake.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Oh Phil, use your imagination. They interact with players on a daily basis. Do you not think their knowledge of what goes into running a tour event, their knowledge of the players, their caddies and so on might be even remotely interesting? They walk the courses inside the ropes at major championships for heaven’s sake.

We already get that do we not from the people who have actually played in the events ?‍

What better insight of inside the ropes than from the players who have been inside the ropes ?‍

Do you want a marshall there as well because they are inside the ropes ?

If anything maybe a greenkeeper who helped set up the course ?

You get no better insight into the players from the players or ex players who have played with these players - not from a rules official who walks around with them and could easily spend 18 holes having zero interaction with any player in the group.

 

[Billysboots]

We already get that do we not from the people who have actually played in the events ?‍

What better insight of inside the ropes than from the players who have been inside the ropes ?‍

Do you want a marshall there as well because they are inside the ropes ?

If anything maybe a greenkeeper who helped set up the course ?

You get no better insight into the players from the players or ex players who have played with these players - not from a rules official who walks around with them and could easily spend 18 holes having zero interaction with any player in the group.

You’re bordering on being a bit silly, Phil. A marshal? No of course I don’t think marshals should join the Sky commentary team. But do you really think someone like John Paramor wouldn’t bring something to the table?

You sit and listen to the irritating “jaunty Irishman” talk the hind legs of a donkey if you’d rather. But methinks you’re being intransigent for the sake of it.

 

[Blue in Munich]

if it's a choice between McGinley & a rules official I'll have the rules official every day and twice on Sundays.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You’re bordering on being a bit silly, Phil. A marshal? No of course I don’t think marshals should join the Sky commentary team. But do you really think someone like John Paramor wouldn’t bring something to the table?

You sit and listen to the irritating “jaunty Irishman” talk the hind legs of a donkey if you’d rather. But methinks you’re being intransigent for the sake of it.

No I just don’t see what “extra” they could bring that we don’t already get

Just because McGinley is annoying to most doesn’t mean that a rules official could be there to give their insight -

Commentary , punditry , insight etc of a sport is provided by people who have played the sport at the highest level - an umpire or rules official is used when there is a “rule” or decision that needs discussion hence why he was used when Schaffule or BDC were taking drops or gaining relief etc - the insight from the rules official was valuable then.

In some sports those discussions are more frequent so they have the ex ref etc there in the studio to go to if required - when it comes to golf the requirement that is televised is very small so imo there is no need , requirement etc for having a rules official as part of a commentary team , it will not IMO add anything to the production. Worthwhile as the odd one off when something juicy happens but that’s it.

 

[clubchamp98]

if it's a choice between McGinley & a rules official I'll have the rules official every day and twice on Sundays.

Maybe just have one on speed dial Zoom.

 

[Billysboots]

No I just don’t see what “extra” they could bring that we don’t already get

Just because McGinley is annoying to most doesn’t mean that a rules official could be there to give their insight -

Commentary , punditry , insight etc of a sport is provided by people who have played the sport at the highest level - an umpire or rules official is used when there is a “rule” or decision that needs discussion hence why he was used when Schaffule or BDC were taking drops or gaining relief etc - the insight from the rules official was valuable then.

In some sports those discussions are more frequent so they have the ex ref etc there in the studio to go to if required - when it comes to golf the requirement that is televised is very small so imo there is no need , requirement etc for having a rules official as part of a commentary team , it will not IMO add anything to the production. Worthwhile as the odd one off when something juicy happens but that’s it.

Who did Martin Tyler play for? Or John Motson? Barry Davies? Three of the most highly respected football commentators in the UK, if not worldwide, of the last fifty years. No top level playing experience amongst them.

You have your opinion. I disagree. I’d be interested to hear an angle other than the playing one. And I’m quite sure some of the anecdotes John Paramor and his ilk could recount would be entertaining in their own right.