TRUMP, What the hell is going on

[Deleted member 15344]

Well just watched Trump's live address, it doesn't matter who writes his speeches he is simply a terrible orator.

He started off saying alls well, then started issuing warnings to Iran and boasting of hiw much he has spent on defence and what rockets they have and how he has effectively taken out the worlds biggest terrorist but will respond further if Iran continues revenge attacks, then called us out along with yhe Germans, Russians and Chinese to stop backing Iran and join him. Thats merely a summary of what he said there was lot more, but it seems there's going to be a lot mire mileage in this yet as its effectively his way or no way.

It was an horrific conference and just sums up his and the US arrogance and feel of superiority over others

Going back to 1979 just smacks of a grudge , going into the deal which he pulled out of ( which started it all again ) shows how he wants to undo anything Obama did.

The arrogance to highlight other countries who want to sort out peace without the use of force or killing people.

Applying further sanctions to cripple the country further is not going to improve things.

Attempting to show of the military might but suggesting it was their wonderful military that stopped being getting harmed in the attacks - whereas I suspect Iran had no intention of harming life

He is acting as if he has stopped war and won a victory - where as I think the threats and sanctions are just adding to it all

 

[Del_Boy]

One for ‘The Bank’ ?

 

[Wolf]

It was an horrific conference and just sums up his and the US arrogance and feel of superiority over others

Going back to 1979 just smacks of a grudge , going into the deal which he pulled out of ( which started it all again ) shows how he wants to undo anything Obama did.

The arrogance to highlight other countries who want to sort out peace without the use of force or killing people.

Applying further sanctions to cripple the country further is not going to improve things.

Attempting to show of the military might but suggesting it was their wonderful military that stopped being getting harmed in the attacks - whereas I suspect Iran had no intention of harming life

He is acting as if he has stopped war and won a victory - where as I think the threats and sanctions are just adding to it all

It was terrible and highlighted some very poor leadership qualities in the way he spoke and arrogance in his words of how Iran has backed off but then flipped that around to threat they pose to world as the single biggest backers of terrorism. Gloating about size and spend of US military, calling out other leaders publicly and further threats show no interest in resolving the issue without flexing a bit of US muscle.

 

[gmc40]

An alternative narrative...
“But in this case, the events of the last few weeks make Trump’s legal case all the easier. Iran had already begun attacking U.S. personnel. It supported militias that had already shelled a U.S. base in Iraq, an assault that killed one defense contractor and injured several U.S. soldiers. It had ordered its militias to storm the U.S. Embassy. With access to extensive electronic and human intelligence, the Trump administration could conclude that Soleimani and his associates were planning yet further attacks on American forces. Soleimani had, after all, planned the devastating campaign against U.S. forces during the Iraq occupation, provided support for Hezbollah and other terrorist groups that have lethally attacked American troops in the Middle East, and devised the Iranian drone strike on Saudi Arabia’s oil facilities.”
ref: John Yoo; Emanuel S. Heller Professor of Law at the University of California at Berkeley, a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, and a visiting fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University.

Not familiar with him, so looked him up. It’s clear why he has the opinion stated.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

Americans believe in American Exceptionalism. This means more than just being exceptionally socially regressive.
It means that the world is about us and everyone else is supporting cast.

I don't like middle eastern nations not because of their ethnicity but because they are theocracies and I hate theocracy.
I hate Christian theocrats within my own country who have the effrontery to criticize Islamist theocrats elsewhere.
I have the right to do that, not they.

There' no legitimate government that's not a secular government, and particularly after what happened to us in autumn of 2001, having sympathy for middle eastern Islamists (ie, radical Muslims) is difficult for me. 9/11 genuinely messed up our lives on what now seems to be a permanent basis. We haven't been the same since. Even Palestinians who may or may not be being screwed by Israeli occupation don't enter my mind much.

But too many Americans, particularly interior state Americans, have no cosmopolitan sensibilities at all. Our Latino population is the only American segment that speaks more than one language. At least half of us wouldn't know who Boris Johnson is or even neighbors Trudeau and Obrador. How many Brits never heard of Idiot Trump?

So we have an international problem. A serious one. And nobody has a useful answer.

 

[ColchesterFC]

It was an horrific conference and just sums up his and the US arrogance and feel of superiority over others

Going back to 1979 just smacks of a grudge , going into the deal which he pulled out of ( which started it all again ) shows how he wants to undo anything Obama did.

The arrogance to highlight other countries who want to sort out peace without the use of force or killing people.

Applying further sanctions to cripple the country further is not going to improve things.

Attempting to show of the military might but suggesting it was their wonderful military that stopped being getting harmed in the attacks - whereas I suspect Iran had no intention of harming life

He is acting as if he has stopped war and won a victory - where as I think the threats and sanctions are just adding to it all

Not sure about the bit in bold. Launching 22 ballistic missiles towards US military bases doesn't strike me as having no intention to harm life.

 

[clubchamp98]

Just thought I would ask this.
I thought military generals were like chess players!
They never make a move unless they can see what the outcome is.
They say they think three moves ahead so can predict an outcome.

So what is the outcome the American Military is looking for.?

Play with a couple of ex soldiers and they are scratching their heads as to what Trump is doing.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not sure about the bit in bold. Launching 22 ballistic missiles towards US military bases doesn't strike me as having no intention to harm life.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-middle-east-51042156

I have this feeling that Iran didn’t target anything that was to harm people with some of the missiles not even hitting any area

 

[patricks148]

Americans believe in American Exceptionalism. This means more than just being exceptionally socially regressive.
It means that the world is about us and everyone else is supporting cast.

I don't like middle eastern nations not because of their ethnicity but because they are theocracies and I hate theocracy.
I hate Christian theocrats within my own country who have the effrontery to criticize Islamist theocrats elsewhere.
I have the right to do that, not they.

There' no legitimate government that's not a secular government, and particularly after what happened to us in autumn of 2001, having sympathy for middle eastern Islamists (ie, radical Muslims) is difficult for me. 9/11 genuinely messed up our lives on what now seems to be a permanent basis. We haven't been the same since. Even Palestinians who may or may not be being screwed by Israeli occupation don't enter my mind much.

But too many Americans, particularly interior state Americans, have no cosmopolitan sensibilities at all. Our Latino population is the only American segment that speaks more than one language. At least half of us wouldn't know who Boris Johnson is or even neighbors Trudeau and Obrador. How many Brits never heard of Idiot Trump?

So we have an international problem. A serious one. And nobody has a useful answer.

no doubt the answer to all these questions to many americans would be "more Guns"

 

[SocketRocket]

Just thought I would ask this.
I thought military generals were like chess players!
They never make a move unless they can see what the outcome is.
They say they think three moves ahead so can predict an outcome.

So what is the outcome the American Military is looking for.?

Play with a couple of ex soldiers and they are scratching their heads as to what Trump is doing.

Id take a guess at taking out a dangerous terrorist leader who is despised by a great deal of his own people.
Iran is a country ruled by religious fanatics that force their citizens to live a life with poor human rights where at least 50% of them live in abject poverty even though the country is fairly rich, the Iranian government are always looking to push the boundaries and provoke unrest with the West, just look at their recent spate of blowing up ships and taking them by force, we should not be showing weakness and division at such times. Calling a meeting of the UN Security Council would achieve diddly squat other than Russia and China vetoing any action.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-middle-east-51042156

I have this feeling that Iran didn’t target anything that was to harm people with some of the missiles not even hitting any area

I am thinking that the air bases 'targetted' by the Iranians will be huge in area with lots of nothing in most of each. So the Iranians could easy target and hit an air base deliberately missing buildings or bunkers. That said ballistic missiles are almost by definition fire-and-forget. However it would be interesting to know what missiles they actually fired - because if they had any form of terminal guidance it would have been relatively easy for the Iranians to have hit a building if they had wanted to.

 

[drdel]

^^^ Iran has its own missile building capability.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Just thought I would ask this.
I thought military generals were like chess players!
They never make a move unless they can see what the outcome is.
They say they think three moves ahead so can predict an outcome.

So what is the outcome the American Military is looking for.?

Play with a couple of ex soldiers and they are scratching their heads as to what Trump is doing.

As someone already said, he is distracting people from his impeachment and getting re-elected.

 

[patricks148]

^^^ Iran has its own missile building capability.

i didn't know Standard had a factory in Iran?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

^^^ Iran has its own missile building capability.

Indeed - but we are told the bases were hit by ballistic missiles. If these missiles had any form of terminal guidance and it was their launch and mid-course phases that are ballistic then they could most probably very easily have hit buildings if they had wanted to.
(Background? In a previous life I was a missile guidance, control and navigation systems engineer - we thought of ourselves as clever rocket scientists )

 

[clubchamp98]

Indeed - but we are told the bases were hit by ballistic missiles. If these missiles had any form of terminal guidance and it was their launch and mid-course phases that are ballistic then they could most probably very easily have hit buildings if they had wanted to.
(Background? In a previous life I was a missile guidance, control and navigation systems engineer - we thought of ourselves as clever rocket scientists )

I am impressed Sir.
Surely they would need guidance in order to make sure they never hit any buildings?
As the other way it’s pot luck..

 

[patricks148]

I am impressed Sir.
Surely they would need guidance in order to make sure they never hit any buildings?
As the other way it’s pot luck..

depends which direction you face the milk bottle

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I am impressed Sir.
Surely they would need guidance in order to make sure they never hit any buildings?
As the other way it’s pot luck..

pure ballistic - yup - a bit of pot luck - depending upon your launch accuracy - but there will be some form of on-board guidance/navigation even if it is just an Inertial Navigation System - possibly GPS-aided. But if you know where the buildings are and it is likely that the air bases each cover a huge area - then you can pretty much eliminate the risk of hitting a building you want to miss.

Different matter hitting a specific building you want to hit...my understanding is dated about how that is done these days - in any case it's not really something for an open forum

Bottom line - I strongly suspect that if the Iranians had wanted to hit any building on any US air base - then then could have.

meanwhile US officials confident that the Ukrainian passenger aircraft was shot down by Iranian Air Defense missiles (SA-15s?)

Serious kit - awesome technology - that would probably have been in 'action-ready' mode in anticipation of possible retaliatory attack by the US following the Iranian attack on the airfields. And a mis-identification or other error...What a mess...

Note that in a life following by missile guidance role my job was to assess global market demand for Western Air Defence systems in competition with such as Tor/Gauntlet. No idea of leading systems today - but Tor/Gauntlet was at the forefront of Air Defence systems technology 20yrs ago - so probably why the Iranians have it today.

 

[ColchesterFC]

pure ballistic - yup - a bit of pot luck - depending upon your launch accuracy - but there will be some form of on-board guidance/navigation even if it is just an Inertial Navigation System - possibly GPS-aided. But if you know where the buildings are and it is likely that the air bases each cover a huge area - then you can pretty much eliminate the risk of hitting a building you want to miss.

Different matter hitting a specific building you want to hit...my understanding is dated about how that is done these days - in any case it's not really something for an open forum

Bottom line - I strongly suspect that if the Iranians had wanted to hit any building on any US air base - then then could have.

Phil's link earlier showed that they did hit buildings (image from it below). Whether they targeted those buildings in particular or not is another matter.



And BBC News now reporting that the airliner that crashed was shot down by Iran by mistake....

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51055219

 

[SocketRocket]

Indeed - but we are told the bases were hit by ballistic missiles. If these missiles had any form of terminal guidance and it was their launch and mid-course phases that are ballistic then they could most probably very easily have hit buildings if they had wanted to.
(Background? In a previous life I was a missile guidance, control and navigation systems engineer - we thought of ourselves as clever rocket scientists )

I think from a previous conversation we both worked there at the same time. Not sure about you but all the missile systems I was involved with were either anti aircraft or ant tank. At that time I think Iraq were firing those dumb Scuds at Israel.