Trump and NATO

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

His post NATO summit press conference this morning - worth listening to - full of deflection, evasion (mostly when he clearly didn't understand the question), dissembling, exaggeration, disingenuousness, self-promotion and more than one wee porky...

And before damning that assessment, note that the US SoS (Pompeo) immediately tried to change and temper expectations in respect of Trump's claim that deals were done around NATO funding - by telling the press that there was much still to be done.

And half hour after the close of the press conference President Macron has stated that absolutely no new deals or commitments were made in discussions with Trump over defense spending - despite Trump claims that such agreement by NATO countries had been given. And despite all the bluster he spouts to his constituency in the US, Trump never mentioned once in the meetings anything whatsoever about the US leaving NATO (which is a good thing - but not the hard line that Trump puts to his constituency in the US).

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...emergency-session-amid-trump-demands-56532145

Of course the Trump cultists in the states will take Trump's word as gospel (I really shouldn't use religious allusions in respect of Trump as there is very little Christian about Trump; his words and his actions); and by taking his words as the truth - those of Macron will have to be lies and evidence of NATO sneakiness, untrustworthiness and shirking of responsibilities.

 

[IanM]

I have absolutely no idea how the UK defence will work once we get our country back.
Without the USA and the EU I would say that we will be quite lonely.

Different thread, same repetition and lack of understanding.... Some members of NATO are not in the EU. Some members of the EU are not in NATO. By Jove!

Still thinking someone has two GM accounts

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Different thread, same repetition and lack of understanding.... Some members of NATO are not in the EU. Some members of the EU are not in NATO. By Jove!

Still thinking someone has two GM accounts

I think that it is Trump who might believe the the EU countries are those that comprise the European countries of NATO. By his various statements (though confused and contradictory) Trump it would seem would like to see the EU broken up on the grounds that that would undermine the integrity of NATO.

 

[Old Skier]

NATO invoked Article 5 for the first time in its history after the 9/11 terrorist attacks against the United States - and servicemen from NATO allies of the USA lost their lives on the back of that.

The words of the Democratic party Senator and the vote in the Senate do not suggest a huge weakness to the whims of the President.

Many US commentators and the Senator also pointed out how the US's allies contribute in other ways to NATO other than through the 2% target - the fact that European countries will host and support US military installations was not lost on the Senator. As he said...

"...is in the US national interest and not because other countries are paying us for protection. We must look at the whole picture of allied contributions to the NATO operations"

Perhaps the Senator needs reminding that the host nation charges for those military installations and the revenue that the bases bought into the local area is massive. One area where there was a major British installation is now suffering with many of its service providers closing down

 

[Old Skier]

Which might seem logical but is an anathema to anti-EU ideologues and many who voted to leave the EU - even though at the same time they will be supporting Trump's view of NATO and it's non-value. I believe this sort of thinking is called cognitive dissonance.

Now I get it, yet another thread started so you spout off about the EU. I thought this thread was about Trumpmand NATO.

 

[Old Skier]

Correct about what? Other NATO members not put the same amount of money in, but they give the US free use of military establishments across Europe giving them the ability to have a strategic frontline this side of the world. Without that what will they do??

Im not sure where you got this idea but it's not true.

 

[Old Skier]

I have absolutely no idea how the UK defence will work once we get our country back.
Without the USA and the EU I would say that we will be quite lonely.

Thats no surprise, you seem to have little knowledge about NATO either. One of the largest NATO force within NATO so what has NATO to do with the EU.

 

[Old Skier]

Different thread, same repetition and lack of understanding...
Still thinking someone has two GM accounts

Been fairly obvious for over a year now.

 

[Old Skier]

I think that it is Trump who might believe the the EU countries are those that comprise the European countries of NATO. By his various statements (though confused and contradictory) Trump it would seem would like to see the EU broken up on the grounds that that would undermine the integrity of NATO.

Which is exactly what would happen if the EU had its own army. If you have any knowledge of military matters cast your mind back to what happened on the Yugoslavian pinninsula when NATO troops were under the UN and in the end ditched the blue berets and operated under NATO rules of engagement.

 

[IanM]

Been fairly obvious for over a year now.

,,can mods confirm from IP Address?

 

[Old Skier]

,,can mods confirm from IP Address?

We use IP checker on arrse but I'm not sure if mods here have the same facility and it can be misleading.

 

[Foxholer]

Thats no surprise, you seem to have little knowledge about NATO either. One of the largest NATO force within NATO so what has NATO to do with the EU.

Eh? What? I have no idea what you are trying to say!

Not that I'm disagreeing...DfT seems to be under the illusion that it's the EU that 'contributes' to UK's defence. NATO and EU are quite disparate organisations! In fact, the apparent aim of some in the EU heirarchy to create/beef up a/the standing military force is, imo, an argument to break away from it!

 

[Foxholer]

Different thread, same repetition and lack of understanding.... Some members of NATO are not in the EU. Some members of the EU are not in NATO. By Jove!

Still thinking someone has two GM accounts

Been fairly obvious for over a year now.

Which 2 users are you suggesting are really the same?

If it's SILH and DfT, then (as I only bet on certainties) I'm calling BS on this assertion and am prepared to bet (my usual/standard tenner!) that you are wrong! Are you up for it? Proceeds going to H4H of course!

Same applies to Old Skier btw!

 

[IanM]

Which 2 users are you suggesting are really the same?

If it's SILH and DfT, then (as I only bet on certainties) I'm prepared to bet (my usual/standard tenner!) that you are wrong! Are you up for it? Proceeds going to H4H of course!

Same applies to Old Skier btw!

Maybe they are different people, one is Tusk, the other Junker!

 

[Foxholer]

... I believe this sort of thinking is called cognitive dissonance.

I believe it's actually the exercise of independent thinking!

CD is more the unease which the likes of Trump oriented 'USA First' supporters could well have (if they actually thought properly about it) when they realise that the 'cheap labour' from Central America, that supports a significant chunk of the US economy, is about to disappear!

 

[Old Skier]

Eh? What? I have no idea what you are trying to say!

Not that I'm disagreeing...DfT seems to be under the illusion that it's the EU that 'contributes' to UK's defence. NATO and EU are quite disparate organisations! In fact, the apparent aim of some in the EU heirarchy to create/beef up a/the standing military force is, imo, an argument to break away from it!

Proplems on the site with IPad as words get deleted on some don't get printed

Insert Turkey and Canada wherever

 

[Old Skier]

Which 2 users are you suggesting are really the same?

If it's SILH and DfT, then (as I only bet on certainties) I'm calling BS on this assertion and am prepared to bet (my usual/standard tenner!) that you are wrong! Are you up for it? Proceeds going to H4H of course!

Same applies to Old Skier btw!

And why would you immediately think of just those two.

 

[Foxholer]

Maybe they are different people, one is Tusk, the other Junker!

So... wimping out of the (SILH/DfT being the same person) bet?

'Keyboard warriors', the pair of you!

 

[Foxholer]

And why would you immediately think of just those two.

Because those are the 2 you continually seem to be 'attacking'! Otherwise, please explain which 2 you are refering to!

If it is those 2, then I suggest you either put up or apologise (to both) for the inference!

Are you up for the bet? Or do you not have the courage of your typing!

 

[Old Skier]

Because those are the 2 you continually seem to be 'attacking'! Otherwise, please explain which 2 you are refering to!

If it is those 2, then I suggest you either put up or apologise (to both) for the inference!

Are you up for the bet? Or do you not have the courage of your typing!

You inferred not me so you once again get it all wrong.

You mentioned those two so perhaps it is you who think they may be sockpuppet accounts.

What is this "attacking" you go on about. Get the nurse to up your meds.