TROUBLE AT MILL !!bit long winded

bluewolf

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So hold on, you had lots of people on your waiting list and now because they don't have to pay it all upfront they are now members, have I got that correct? Sounds to me like you never had a waiting list. More like you had a lot of people waiting to join but couldn't afford it.

It looks like you have someone who has got foresight to see where the club is heading, down the drain. Has it really got a million in the bank or is that just clubhouse talk, I would love to see a copy of the financial statement to back that claim up.

Chances are are the secretary hasn't got his head buried in the sand, like the old guard at your club, and can see the long term financial stability of the club is of the upmost importance.

As I have posted on 2 separate occasions, I "know" that the Club is very cash rich. I can't vouch for the waiting list, but I do know that they were pretty full the last time I played there, but that was 18 months ago.
 

MadAdey

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It's just a pair of jeans or trousers ?!?

When it's comes to change its nothing

Come on Phil, your telling me that yor the first person to serve in the RAF that embraced change. I know exactly what SILH means, I don't feel comfortable doing this at a golf club either, but I started playing as a kid at a club similar to the OP. So for me traditional dress code is something that has always always been forced on me.
 
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Come on Phil, your telling me that yor the first person to serve in the RAF that embraced change. I know exactly what SILH means, I don't feel comfortable doing this at a golf club either, but I started playing as a kid at a club similar to the OP. So for me traditional dress code is something that has always always been forced on me.

I have no issue with change

Our club moved to allow jeans in the clubhouse - no issues at all.

Like I said it's only a pair of trousers - nothing to be worried about
 

MadAdey

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As I have posted on 2 separate occasions, I "know" that the Club is very cash rich. I can't vouch for the waiting list, but I do know that they were pretty full the last time I played there, but that was 18 months ago.

The point I was making is that the waiting list might have disappeared, so this lump of money might be slowly dwindling down due to the club not operating at full capacity. Chances are from the sound of it, this club will have an elderly membership who are not going to be there much longer.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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I have no issue with change

Our club moved to allow jeans in the clubhouse - no issues at all.

Like I said it's only a pair of trousers - nothing to be worried about

You have no issue with change and in most respects I don't either. Despite that, I feel uncomfortable wearing jeans in the clubhouse...at the moment, and seeing others with their shirts outside their trousers (also now allowed) and not tucked in. I am sure that I'll get over it.

But change can be uncomfortable and difficult, and for those opposed to the change - even (or especially) in things like the dress code - they will not be particularly happy with the new situation - and I think that whilst being positive about the change you have to be sensitive to that.
 

Hacker Khan

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Would the simple thing be to look on prospective members Facebook or Twitter accounts as that will tell you more in 30 seconds about someone than any type of interview will nowadays?
 

MadAdey

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we did have till the flood gates opened.

Would the simple thing be to look on prospective members Facebook or Twitter accounts as that will tell you more in 30 seconds about someone than any type of interview will nowadays?

It probably would TBH. Lots of pics of family days out compared to pictures of drunken nights out would certainly tell a few tales.
 

bluewolf

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The point I was making is that the waiting list might have disappeared, so this lump of money might be slowly dwindling down due to the club not operating at full capacity. Chances are from the sound of it, this club will have an elderly membership who are not going to be there much longer.

I'm fairly confident that the Club isn't losing money. I know that they'll be operating at near-full capacity (unless they've lost a bucket load of members in the last 12 months). I also know that the Social side of the Club is very healthy. I have a suspicion that the new Secretary has looked at the age demographics and has persuaded everyone that they would benefit from an influx of new, younger members to replace the older ones who have left. This is most likely why they have relaxed the entry criteria. I know that my Club has done a similar thing over the last 6 months and has brought in over 50 new members from across all age groups.

Oh, and Phil. It's not my place to tell you the name of the Club. It's not my thread or Club. I'm not ignoring your request :thup:
 

bluewolf

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It probably would TBH. Lots of pics of family days out compared to pictures of drunken nights out would certainly tell a few tales.

LOL, most of my FB posts are family pictures, but I'm more than capable of enjoying a drunken night out when the mood allows. :D
 

Hacker Khan

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Just had a chat with my playing partner from my club who played in snr comp today,apparently trouble is brewing in the membership that could cause legal problems,a quick background to main point.
When i joined like a lot of private members clubs in the area we had a joining list that you put your name on and waited,i didn't wait long because i knew the people to know,anyway on the night of my interview i turned up shirt and tie nice blazer and slacks and polished black shoes,called into room to be greeted by the three wise men,MR CAPTAIN,the club CHAIRMAN and club SECRETARY,the chap's who proposed me and seconded me had written letters and these were read out for the minutes,after about 20-30 mins of questions about myself and friendly banter i was told my name would be put up in the club house and if no objections from the membership i would get a letter of invitation to join,this i duly got and had to pay my joining fee £1000 and green fees £850 in one payment.
Now jump to the present situation that has now boiled over,to move with the times !! the new sec. brought in a modern approach,that was put before the committee and narrowly got through,stop the interviews,stop the members having a say in who could or couldn't join and let new members pay joining fee over 5 years and pay monthly for the green fee,to be honest the standard of new member is appalling to say the least we have had cars damaged in the car park,a drunken brawl in the games room and the incident that has brought things to a head,6 drunken members (3 weeks ) singing rugby songs at full volume in the bar lounge as the LADY CAPTAIN was entertaining other captains from local courses in a monthly meeting in the lounge next door,the mayhem that followed could now be going to court.
The reason im writing this is some on these pages think golf should be a modern sport without tradition,and jeans flip flops,tee shirts are suitable clothing for the club house,anything goes attitude comes from those who are new to the game,or have never had the honour to be chosen to be a member of a private club,why should clubs that people have waited years to join have to move with the times,the feel of my club seems to have been lost,members who have been the backbone of the club for 40 years are leaving,the reputation has been tainted,and all for what to be seen to be a modern club open to everyone i ask WHY,why SHOULD mine or anyone's club have to do what the golfing press says,modern isnt always the best.

I think you're slightly painting this as black V white. The clubs that will thrive are those that manage to ensure the best bits of the tradition of the game are upheld whilst at the same time looking to modernise in some areas and make the game and their specific 'offering' attractive to the generation of people they are trying to attract, therefore ensuring a healthy future for their club and the game in general.

Yes there will be extremes on both sides (some will be stuck permanently in the 1950s and on the other side of the coin there will be some that allow 'poor people' to play) and a few may well prosper if they have the tradition, history and money to carry it off. Or a vast supply of golf mad poor northerners wearing football shirts and flip fops nearby to support it. But the vast majority will fall somewhere in between.
 

bluewolf

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I think you're slightly painting this as black V white. The clubs that will thrive are those that manage to ensure the best bits of the tradition of the game are upheld whilst at the same time looking to modernise in some areas and make the game and their specific 'offering' attractive to the generation of people they are trying to attract, therefore ensuring a healthy future for their club and the game in general.

Yes there will be extremes on both sides (some will be stuck permanently in the 1950s and on the other side of the coin there will be some that allow 'poor people' to play) and a few may well prosper if they have the tradition, history and money to carry it off. Or a vast supply of golf mad poor northerners wearing football shirts and flip fops nearby to support it. But the vast majority will fall somewhere in between.

Damn.. The firs para started so well, then you just couldn't help yourself in the second para could you? ;)
 

HomerJSimpson

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My club changed it clubhouse dress code very recently to allow jeans. I went for a bite of lunch today and wore nice new pair of jeans. I am sure that some older members who were in were not too impressed. I felt a bit awkward because I was worried a bit about what they were thinking as I too was unsure about relaxing the dress code. However I was totally adhering to the new rules but...

Also this is only the second time I have worn jeans into a golf clubhouse (ANY golf clubhouse ANYWHERE) - and it felt wrong :)

And that is the problem with change.

Funny enough just arrived at Southport and wandered up to find Hillside. Went past Royal Birkdale and I wanted to go in and get a few pics and one of me in front of the famous clubhouse but as I'd driven up in jeans didn't think it was appropriate to go even though I had no intention of using the clubhouse and facilities. We did have a jeans rule for a while and I had the same vibes from older members when HID and I turned up in them. Funny enough it has since been rescinded, mainly by block voting from the seniors at the AGM
 

CheltenhamHacker

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Funny enough just arrived at Southport and wandered up to find Hillside. Went past Royal Birkdale and I wanted to go in and get a few pics and one of me in front of the famous clubhouse but as I'd driven up in jeans didn't think it was appropriate to go even though I had no intention of using the clubhouse and facilities. We did have a jeans rule for a while and I had the same vibes from older members when HID and I turned up in them. Funny enough it has since been rescinded, mainly by block voting from the seniors at the AGM

You worry too much. Just go and get the pictures.

Easier to ask forgiveness, than to get permission!
 

HomerJSimpson

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You worry too much. Just go and get the pictures.

Easier to ask forgiveness, than to get permission!

Very probably but I was brought up in an old school way when jeans at a golf club especially such a prestigious one would have got you ceremonially flogged on the 18th. We're only five minutes away so will do it tomorrow on the way to Hillide
 

MadAdey

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Back to the OP.

Your club needs to be careful or they risk ending up in trouble. As a kid and into early adulthood I was a member of a club that had a 5 year waiting list and all the old traditions like acceptance interviews, no shorts in the clubhouse after 6:00 pm, jacket and tie in the restaurant etc.

Problem was that this started to put younger players off joining and they went to new courses that had a far more relaxed 'modern' environment. Then as the aging membership left the club started offering membership to players from the waiting list. It is then they found that most of of people on the waiting list no longer had any desire to join, as they had settled into somewhere else that wasn't run by a strict out of date regime.

I last played there 5 years ago and the difference in standard of course is no even close to the place I remember and they are constantly doing different things to attract new members.

The point I'm making is that maybe the new secretary has the foresight to see that this may happen to your club, so is trying to I do something to prevent it. Is it not better to try and keep the membership near capacity than letting it drop.
 

Fyldewhite

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It's nothing to do with dress code or ability to pay, it's simply down to behaviour. I hear stories all the time about some of the things that happened 20-30 years ago and there were still altercations, fisticuffs, and no end of drunkenness then. We have a relaxed policy these days and yes, "standards have fallen" whatever that means. The level of swearing in the bar on a Saturday tea time is possibly a problem......but I think that's more a reflection of society in general than anything else. They tone it down if they are told to. Ultimately, if the bad behaviour becomes the norm it is difficult to change back so it has to be stamped on by the committee to a degree. I think the committee in the OP has failed to do anything by the sounds of it which is a shame.
 

Simbo

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What's the big secret about what club it is? where's the OP gone? What is the legal action being threatened?., because of the fighting or because someone does their golf clothing shopping in sports direct?.
 

HomerJSimpson

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We are a Royal club but if you walked in to the 19th on a Saturday lunchtime we've no airs and graces and in truth the banter amongst the roll up is perhaps a bit too raucous and OTT but we get told to wind the necks in when it gets too much for others. Perfectly fine with doing that. I agree with Fyldewhite and think the swearing in the banter is more a comment on society in general than the club anmd members
 
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