Time allowed looking for provisional after 3mins looking for 1st ball

[Colin L]

But I think you are kidding yourselves or heads in the sand, if you really think those 'local rules' are not how golf, and yes, competition golf, is played in the real world.
Agree, yes, there is a moral hazard issue, and it is comforting to some to hold at least the illusion of a hard line. But the truth is that what I wrote is custom and practice everywhere.

Do join my club with your mates and try it on. But you'd need to have your next club lined up, mind you: you won't be a member for long.

Maybe, of course, your projected next club won't have you. We do talk to each other.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

When I search for my ball, I do time myself, it is easy enough for me as I have my Garmin on anyway for Strava. And, if looking for someone else's, I will gently say "looks like the 3 mins is up, before stopping the my search and walking to my own ball". Question is, what do you do? Will you stop looking for your ball after 3 minutes, or will you pull someone up on the fact their 3 minutes is clearly up?

BIB - this exactly what I do. And it (usually) works.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

And just imagine how off-putting it would be when every group was just doing what they think best. There would be no real incentive to learn any rule, and you could just plead ignorance and continue according to your own common sense.

Hit a ball just OB, what if nobody in group knows what that means, and they say "well, you or only just past that white post, but you have a swing so just play on from there". What if they don't know how to proceed when ball is unplayable? Instead of taking 2 club lengths, which would still keep them in bush, they just take a drop out on fairway with a penalty. After all, seems reasonable to them.

Very very messy indeed

Isn’t this how most people play anyway?

 

[Swango1980]

Isn’t this how most people play anyway?

In competitions? Definitely not, at least in my 20 years experience. Nearly everyone knows the basic unplayable rules / what to do if it goes out of bounds. If they are not 100% accurate on the procedure, they'll either play with someone that does (sooner or later), and it often prompts a lot of questions and discussion in the bar afterwards. I very much doubt that it is widespread that golfers in a competition just drop a ball roughly near where it crossed the out of bounds line, for example.

But, the key issue here is that there is absolutely no point in having any rules whatsoever, if the rules also allow players to do what they think is best if they don't know the rules. It would not be in the interest of the player learning the rules, if those rules are likely to cost them more shots than if they proceeded based on their own common sense.

 

[rulefan]

Isn’t this how most people play anyway?

Isn’t this how most people play anyway?

Sounds like you are saying that most golfers are like IKEA man. Whatever else you do, don't read the instructions.

 

[3offTheTee]

Really sorry to query this but “same area” and I have read post 3.

If I hit a ball and it goes right and I hit another one how close is same area? The reason I hit a provisional was that I did NOT know where the first one was and if I knew where the 2nd one was I would find it. The other players in my group were not looking, poor I know.

My question is:What is same area? Repeating myself I did not know where EXACTLY the first went. is it about 5 yards or 10 square yards?

The rules are so cut and dried but feel the “same area” is not.

Certainly accept the more superior rules officials on here with their answers

 

[Swango1980]

Really sorry to query this but “same area” and I have read post 3.

If I hit a ball and it goes right and I hit another one how close is same area? The reason I hit a provisional was that I did NOT know where the first one was and if I knew where the 2nd one was I would find it. The other players in my group were not looking, poor I know.

My question is:What is same area? Repeating myself I did not know where EXACTLY the first went. is it about 5 yards or 10 square yards?

The rules are so cut and dried but feel the “same area” is not.

Certainly accept the more superior rules officials on here with their answers

Well, at some point you will have to use a judgement and show some integrity when making the call.

When you look for your first ball, you are not going to look in an area of 5-10 yards anyway, unless you saw the ball drop right beside a specific tree / bush. In most cases if you hook two balls, or slice two balls in the same approximate area, with reasonably similar strikes, then you are ultimately going to be searching in one area for both balls. If you hit one that isn't such a great strike down the right, and then hit a much better strike but down the right, then you will probably be looking in different areas for both balls. So you have 3 minutes for each.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

We have the following...unwritten of course...local rules :

Unwritten Local Rule 1.
In a case where there is uncertainty over the correct procedure according to the rules amongst a group of players, the player will make their best effort to guess the correct and equitable rule. It is not necessary to debate, consult the rules, or a referee, or other action that would delay play. Unless a playing partner is virtually certain that the rules are being incorrectly applied, the player may proceed as they best judge, and no penalty or score revision may be made, even if the action taken is subsequently found to have been not according to the rules.


Unwritten Local Rule 2.
No penalty shall be applied for breach of rules that are by common concensus of the group are unnecessarily pernickety and there is virtually certainty that other than with the application of penalty shots, would have no material effect on ones score. For example, not replacing a moved marker on the green before putting out, marking ones own card, discovering more than 14 clubs is ones bag as long as no more than 14 have actually been used, etc.

This is one of the reasons I have a problem with the same fourball playing together week-in, week-out. Even if they don't deliberately break the rules there gets to be a very comfortable acceptance of practices which do so. I have argued for drawn start sheets for all board competitions but have been told people wouldn't enter if it was implemented. I wonder why?

 

[Swango1980]

This is one of the reasons I have a problem with the same fourball playing together week-in, week-out. Even if they don't deliberately break the rules there gets to be a very comfortable acceptance of practices which do so. I have argued for drawn start sheets for all board competitions but have been told people wouldn't enter if it was implemented. I wonder why?

Have they ever tried it to actually find out? I know a lot of people, who are not in a regular group, who wouldn't even join a club unless the competitions were drawn. Removes the stress of sorting out your group, and thet get to play with a variety of different people

 

[rulefan]

A new handicap chair appointed at the end of the season introduced random draw grouping at the start of the next season not realising they had always been left to the players. It lasted a few weeks before members revolted. The odd thing is that our major 'fiddles', Seniors and Rabbits continue with and favour random draws.

 

[doublebogey7]

A new handicap chair appointed at the end of the season introduced random draw grouping at the start of the next season not realising they had always been left to the players. It lasted a few weeks before members revolted. The odd thing is that our major 'fiddles', Seniors and Rabbits continue with and favour random draws.

It's pretty much the same out my club, have tried drawn partners but get fewer entries.

 

[Swango1980]

If entries go.down once random draws are implemented, I wonder how many don't enter because they can't play with a mate, and how many don't enter because they can't select their tee time (which can be mitigated).

I guess it isn't surprising some will revolt when things change. People don't like change. But, if you persevere, then many will end up coming back anyway, while you may slowly start to attract more players who now feel they can get a game without stress of finding a group to play with.

If it was left up to clubs to choose whether they introduce WHS or not, how many would have given up after a week? Not to say it isn't improved, just that people don't like change.

 

[Colin L]

It's pretty much the same out my club, have tried drawn partners but get fewer entries.

But quite possibly you got fairer results.

 

[doublebogey7]

But quite possibly you got fairer results.

That may well be the case, if it was left to me we would persist with drawn comps, but I am in a minority on the committee.