Time allowed looking for provisional after 3mins looking for 1st ball

[Fairway dodger]

Apologies if this has come up before
Do you get another 3 mins to look for a provisional if you cannot find your initial ball after 3 mins?
I asked the pro at our club and he thought that was the case but wasn't sure.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Apologies if this has come up before
Do you get another 3 mins to look for a provisional if you cannot find your initial ball after 3 mins?
I asked the pro at our club and he thought that was the case but wasn't sure.

I‘m not 100% sure but the answer may be linked to the known or likely proximity of the provisional to the original. So how close to the immediate/initial search area of the original was the provisional likely or known to be.

 

[LincolnShep]

If the two balls are in the same area, then you only get three minutes. If they are in different areas, you get three minutes per ball.

You searched for rules of golf explained provisional ball search time - National Club Golfer

www.nationalclubgolfer.com

 

[Steven Rules]

If the two balls are in the same area, then you only get three minutes. If they are in different areas, you get three minutes per ball.

You searched for rules of golf explained provisional ball search time - National Club Golfer

www.nationalclubgolfer.com

Or...you could just refer to the relevant clarification (Lost/2) from the actual Rules of Golf.

The R&A

The R&A seeks to engage in and support activities for the benefit of the sport of golf from The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews.

www.randa.org

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I was asked this exact question yesterday by our club champeen…as he knew I took an interest in the rules.

The scenario arose when he was playing in a recent county match and his opponent was in the situation. Neither players knew the answer, and neither did their ref nor it seems any other ref consulted at the time.

But I knew - and I only knew because of this rules section and the support and guidance our very knowledgable refs and others having a keen interest in the rules provide us with

 

[KenL]

Apologies if this has come up before
Do you get another 3 mins to look for a provisional if you cannot find your initial ball after 3 mins?
I asked the pro at our club and he thought that was the case but wasn't sure.

Why don't pros ever seem to know the rules?

 

[jim8flog]

Why don't pros ever seem to know the rules?

My experience

Pros have to take a test on the Rules when they become one but rely on that knowledge thereafter and do not keep up with the changes.

 

[IanM]

Why don't pros ever seem to know the rules?

They know plenty, but try it on if they can. They also let the ref make the call to absolve them of an error

 

[KenL]

They know plenty, but try it on if they can. They also let the ref make the call to absolve them of an error

I should have clarified that I was talking about club pros.

 

[Colin L]

I was asked this exact question yesterday by our club champeen…as he knew I took an interest in the rules.

The scenario arose when he was playing in a recent county match and his opponent was in the situation. Neither players knew the answer, and neither did their ref nor it seems any other ref consulted at the time.

But I knew - and I only knew because of this rules section and the support and guidance our very knowledgable refs and others having a keen interest in the rules provide us with

That is astonishing.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That is astonishing.

That’s what I thought. A Surrey county inter-club championship match. I don‘t know if it was just their match ref who was consulted at the time, but they must have asked when they got in…else my clubmate wouldn’t have been asking me

 

[clubchamp98]

I should have clarified that I was talking about club pros.

Most club pros won’t commit themselves incase they are wrong.
One told me that “ most members only give their side of the story”
so they leave it to the comittiee.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

It's a bit like the highway code - we all read it and understood enough to pass the driving test. However, how many of us even have copy anymore, yet alone a current copy!

 

[Backsticks]

That is astonishing.

Yes and no. Its easy to say people, especially high level serious players, and referees, should know the answer.
But people dont. Not to mention the average golfer not know drop rules from a penalty area and the likes, as frequent events for them.
What the above says to me, is that either the rules are too many and too complex to expect people to know them, or, as happens in most amateur club golf, you just make up your best guess on the spot, and right or wrong, the score counts. It works. But at elite level, there is an expectation of rules perfection, and these types of example show that it is unrealistic.

 

[Colin L]

Yes and no. Its easy to say people, especially high level serious players, and referees, should know the answer......

To be clear, I was astonished that none of the referees knew, not anyone else. It's a fairly basic one which can crop up quite often whether because of a provisional or two players searching for their own balls in the same area.

 

[Steven Rules]

at elite level, there is an expectation of rules perfection, and these types of example show that it is unrealistic.

At the elite level, this is a pretty basic rule (or clarification to be precise) for a referee to know.

I agree with Colin's assessment. Astonishing.

 

[Backsticks]

Yes, certainly if it is a refs job to know such a basic clarification, its amazing they didnt.

But that they, nor the players, knew what you would class as very basic and not an exceptional bizarre case, is what highlights the problem with golf rules being a study in themselves.
It really only comes up as an issue in elite play or pro tournaments.

Maybe there is a need even there for some sort of laissez faire clause in the rules that allows players to agree some common sense outcome rather than get stuck or penalised for not knowing a rule. For 95% of golfers, this is what happens in reality anyway - people dont know a rule, or even 'know' a rule incorrectly - playing partners and card signer dont care too much as long as its not something outrageous, and play carries on without delay or rules debate. Whether the action taken was correct or not.

 

[Swango1980]

Yes, certainly if it is a refs job to know such a basic clarification, its amazing they didnt.

But that they, nor the players, knew what you would class as very basic and not an exceptional bizarre case, is what highlights the problem with golf rules being a study in themselves.
It really only comes up as an issue in elite play or pro tournaments.

Maybe there is a need even there for some sort of laissez faire clause in the rules that allows players to agree some common sense outcome rather than get stuck or penalised for not knowing a rule. For 95% of golfers, this is what happens in reality anyway - people dont know a rule, or even 'know' a rule incorrectly - playing partners and card signer dont care too much as long as its not something outrageous, and play carries on without delay or rules debate. Whether the action taken was correct or not.

Are you not looking too deeply into this issue? The rule that a referee (presumably a qualified referee, but at least likely a golf rules enthusiast) was unaware of was basic. Hence why it is astonishing they did not know it. It is like a referee not knowing the all the options you can proceed under when declaring a ball unplayable, where to take a drop when the ball goes in a PA or when you can and cannot continue play with a provisional.

Could your last paragraph be summarised as "if you don't know the rule, just make it up as best you can"? If so, good luck with that, I'm sure that will solve any issues golfers have with the rules overnight.....

 

[Backsticks]

Could your last paragraph be summarised as "if you don't know the rule, just make it up as best you can"? If so, good luck with that, I'm sure that will solve any issues golfers have with the rules overnight.....

In a way, yes, though ovbviously would need a precise wording in itself. But its maybe something that should be considered to match the rules officially to how the vast majority actually play the game. And make the rules simpler and less offputting to people thinking you need a degree in the rules and decisions, to make golf more approachable.

 

[doublebogey7]

In a way, yes, though ovbviously would need a precise wording in itself. But its maybe something that should be considered to match the rules officially to how the vast majority actually play the game. And make the rules simpler and less offputting to people thinking you need a degree in the rules and decisions, to make golf more approachable.

I've heard this so many times, but I've yet to hear anyone come up with a suggestion how this may be done in practise.