The Solheim pick up controversy - what should have happened?

MarkT

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I know some have had their say in the Solheim thread but, for an online piece, what should have happened after Sagstrom picked it up?

How could it have been handled differently, if at all?


I still can’t see how the ball is said to overhanging the hole and players are always throwing their opponents’ ball back to them but there we go..
 

fundy

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should all have moved on and got on with focussing on the golf being played and commenting on that rather than still talking about this the following day whilst the golf continues
 

Bratty

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My understanding is that the officials had been instructed to take action if they spotted any infringement from either side. Which happened. Therefore the short answer to your question is nothing should have happened unless a referee felt it was overhanging and a rule had ben broken. Which I think is exactly what happened.
My understanding of the rules is if overhanging, a player has a reasonable amount of time to approach the ball and then wait 10 seconds. Which didn't happen.
However, was the ball overhanging? Well, that's debatable and subjective.
I believe Sagstrom should have not been so naive and left the ball where it was, waited for Korda to get off her knees (which ironically is what she's on right now in her latest match!) and walk to her ball and wait the 10 seconds. Then when the ball doesn't drop (which it wouldn't have done!), accept the gimme.
All the talk of spirit of the game, 7 seconds not 10, overhanging or not overhanging is just noise that should be tuned out.
Fundamentally, I agree with Fundy! Let's move on.
 
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By the rules what should have happened is exactly what did happen in this case

I’m not sure why it’s still such a big debate

The European was at fault and the referee acted how they had been instructed to act.

The players moved on - time for everyone else too now
 

Crow

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IMHO Korda should have conceded the birdie putt for Europe on the 18th green, squaring the match. If she was unsure whether to do it or not then her Captain should have told her to do it.

Then Korda and the US team would have been sporting heroes and would have gone on with their heads held high to probably win the cup with ease and the incident would only be remembered for good reasons.

What actually happened is that the incident is now remembered for all the wrong reasons and Korda seems to have been negatively affected by it while the European team is galvanised. The USA may still win the cup but the win will always be tainted.
 

Backsticks

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IMHO Korda should have conceded the birdie putt for Europe on the 18th green, squaring the match. If she was unsure whether to do it or not then her Captain should have told her to do it.
Its competitive sport, not an under 10s pitch and putt. That would just have made a mockery of it as a serious sporting event. What next: give putts here and there to ensure all matches go to the 18th, and concede putts to that the cup is halved and every one goes home happy with a medal ? If Korda had done that it would have been an unforgivable devaluing of the cup to a lets all be best girlfriends and ensure no hard feelings first and winning isnt what its about vibe. Making it just an exhibition match.
 

Crow

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Its competitive sport, not an under 10s pitch and putt. That would just have made a mockery of it as a serious sporting event. What next: give putts here and there to ensure all matches go to the 18th, and concede putts to that the cup is halved and every one goes home happy with a medal ? If Korda had done that it would have been an unforgivable devaluing of the cup to a lets all be best girlfriends and ensure no hard feelings first and winning isnt what its about vibe. Making it just an exhibition match.

IYHO.
 

Rockall

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What I can’t understand is, if the rules official saw it as overhanging, why didn't she immediately intervene to say the putt was deemed holed. It would have meant that Europe would have known what they had to do with their eagle putt i.e a must make. Instead they thought it was a “no worse than 2 putts to at least get the half” scenario, completely different. Fundamentally unfair in matchplay to wait until after Europe putted.
 

doublebogey7

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My view for what it is worth. The match Referee had a duty to interfere as she felt she had witnessed an infraction. However in order to come to a decision she ought to have gathered all the available evidence, which would have included asking those closest to the action whether the ball was overhanging the hole.
 

fenwayrich

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My understanding is that the referee was in sole control of the match, and as such she was obliged to get involved when she saw any action contrary to the rules. This is unlike a situation where referees are roving and potentially covering various games. Sagstrom was in clear breach of the rule in question. The correct penalty was applied.
 

Ethan

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The rule hinges on whether the ball was overhanging or not, because the 10 second rule only applies in that event. The behaviour off the American players strongly suggests they thought they had missed, and were not waiting to see if it fell in, because it was not overhanging.

The US players could have dealt with that referee's decision with a generous concession on the next hole on which one was available.

This has happened before, famously Nicklaus and Jacklin, and in football, teams have chosen to deliberately miss a penalty they felt was undeserved.
 

TigerBear

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Shocking from officials, and even worse from the chief referee. That was never going to drop and why nothing was said by the Americans at the time.

They should have conceded the next hole (whenever they could have) in the spirit of fairness.

All this has done has shown the Americans up and fired up team Europe. Win, win.
 

wjemather

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Given it's impossible to be certain after watching countless replays, and seeing the position of the match referee at the time (20 yards away below the level of the green), there is zero chance she knew whether the ball was overhanging the hole or not. This is even more evident after listening to her discussion with Sagstrom.

As such, the match referee made a huge mistake in making the decision without speaking to the players (or maybe requesting replay review). If she had done so, as soon as Sagstrom said the ball was not overhanging, that would (or should) have been the end of it.

Unfortunately once that initial decision was made, it was never going to be overturned because of the way the rules and officiating procedures are written.
 

Junior

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Given it's impossible to be certain after watching countless replays, and seeing the position of the match referee at the time (20 yards away below the level of the green), there is zero chance she knew whether the ball was overhanging the hole or not. This is even more evident after listening to her discussion with Sagstrom.

As such, the match referee made a huge mistake in making the decision without speaking to the players (or maybe requesting replay review). If she had done so, as soon as Sagstrom said the ball was not overhanging, that would (or should) have been the end of it.

Unfortunately once that initial decision was made, it was never going to be overturned because of the way the rules and officiating procedures are written.

This and the fact they were 3.5 to 0.5 down down...The over zealous American referee wanted to help out a little. No way the ref could have seen from where she was that there that no part of the ball hanging over the hole.
 

Swinglowandslow

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Looking at post 142 on the Solheim cup thread, the ball seems to be overhanging.
Not saying it's going to drop, just that some part if the ball seems to be overhanging.
AFAIK. No one has mentioned that the teams have probably , almost certainly, been told before play began, that referees will call rule breaches if seen.
A very unfortunate incident. Lesson learnt? Don't pick up the ball , just say "that's good" or similar.
 
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