The seven most common Rules breaches at our club

[wjemather]

Ah ok. I thought as long as my intention was clear I didn't have to actually say provisional.

You are correct. The important thing to note is that simply stating you are "playing another" is not enough; if you added "just in case", that would be acceptable as indication that you are playing it as a provisional ball.

 

[salfordlad]

You are correct. The important thing to note is that simply stating you are "playing another" is not enough; if you added "just in case", that would be acceptable as indication that you are playing it as a provisional ball.

If anyone thinks this 2019 innovation is sensible, I suspect you are in the minority. However, the RBs have spoken, so we'll learn to love this little quirk.

 

[Steven Rules]

You are correct. The important thing to note is that simply stating you are "playing another" is not enough; if you added "just in case", that would be acceptable as indication that you are playing it as a provisional ball.

What you say is absolutely correct but that doesn't stop me letting out an exasperated sigh every time I think about this.

 

[salfordlad]

What you say is absolutely correct but that doesn't stop me letting out an exasperated sigh every time I think about this.

Snap!

 

[rulefan]

I don't believe Dickinshorts was saying anything inconsistent with this.

He said ".... that giving advice isn’t against the rules "
The rule says "During a round, you must not give advice to anyone in the competition who is playing on the course, "

There seems to be a difference.

 

[salfordlad]

He said ".... that giving advice isn’t against the rules "
The rule says "During a round, you must not give advice to anyone in the competition who is playing on the course, "

There seems to be a difference.

Again, you are misunderstanding his post, you are reading a subset of the post and taking it literally and out of context. He is not saying that giving advice isn't against the rules.

 

[Swango1980]

He said ".... that giving advice isn’t against the rules "
The rule says "During a round, you must not give advice to anyone in the competition who is playing on the course, "

There seems to be a difference.

This forum is specifically about golfers making common mistakes regarding the rules. Dick in shorts gave his own example, where he said:

"Also thinking that giving advice isn’t against the rules - but asking is!"

In other words, he has highlighted people who think giving advice is perfectly acceptable. The very fact he has mentioned it indicates that he KNOWS that you cannot give advice, and thus people who think they can have got it wrong.

 

[rulefan]

Ok I see it now.

I understood it as he was thinking rather that deluded players were thinking

 

[Orikoru]

Ah ok. I thought as long as my intention was clear I didn't have to actually say provisional.

I look at the opposite way to what you're supposed to. I usually assume they're playing a provisional unless they say otherwise, since 9 times out of 10 that'll be the case. Personally I always say the word provisional out loud though since there's no reason not to.

 

[Swango1980]

Oh no, watch out, Orikoru is here...

 

[rulefan]

I look at the opposite way to what you're supposed to.

Not always a good idea. A few times when refereeing I have seen a group leaving the tee when a player has obviously played a second ball but I was too far away to know if it was a provisional or not. If another of the group is nearby I have asked "Did he just play a provisional?" and got the response "I don't know". I have then gone to the player before he is near enough to make a judgement on his finding the original, to clarify what he intended. A couple if times I have had a suspicion that 'his' spotter (ie accompanying spectator friend) has indicated that he has seen his original going into a very unpleasant location.
But I must admit that is very rare

 

[Orikoru]

Not always a good idea. A few times when refereeing I have seen a group leaving the tee when a player has obviously played a second ball but I was too far away to know if it was a provisional or not. If another of the group is nearby I have asked "Did he just play a provisional?" and got the response "I don't know". I have then gone to the player before he is near enough to make a judgement on his finding the original, to clarify what he intended. A couple if times I have had a suspicion that 'his' spotter (ie accompanying spectator friend) has indicated that he has seen his original going into a very unpleasant location.
But I must admit that is very rare

I know what you mean. But in a typical weekend club comp, as I say, 9 times out of 10 they're intended to hit a provisional. If they say "reload" or "hitting another one" I always take that to mean provisional. If there's time I might just question "provisional yeah?" but I'm not going to speak up if they're already addressed the ball. If they later try and claim they put a new ball in play when they don't like the first one I'd probably question it then. Again though most people don't do that - if they can take any sort of drop and hack it down the fairway they're still usually better off than they are having taken 3 off the tee.

 

[Swango1980]

I know what you mean. But in a typical weekend club comp, as I say, 9 times out of 10 they're intended to hit a provisional. If they say "reload" or "hitting another one" I always take that to mean provisional. If there's time I might just question "provisional yeah?" but I'm not going to speak up if they're already addressed the ball. If they later try and claim they put a new ball in play when they don't like the first one I'd probably question it then. Again though most people don't do that - if they can take any sort of drop and hack it down the fairway they're still usually better off than they are having taken 3 off the tee.

Just for your information then, the Interpretations definitively tell us that your assumption is incorrect:

Examples of announcements that do not clearly indicate the player is playing a provisional ball and mean that the player would be putting a ball into play under stroke and distance include:

• "I'm going to re-load".
• "I'm going to play another".

So, they have pretty much said word for word that those 2 phrases would be unacceptable.

I know what you are getting at, because I'm guessing nearly every club golfer (or the vast majority) would simply assume a provisional was being played. However, they would get in a spot of bother if they were playing with a referee, or another golfer who knew the rule and was willing to challenge them on it.

 

[BiMGuy]

I’m of the opinion that unless someone explicitly states they are hitting a provisional, they are abandoning the first and the next ball is the one in play.

It removes any potential for players to decide which ball they would prefer to play.

 

[Orikoru]

Just for your information then, the Interpretations definitively tell us that your assumption is incorrect:

Examples of announcements that do not clearly indicate the player is playing a provisional ball and mean that the player would be putting a ball into play under stroke and distance include:

• "I'm going to re-load".
• "I'm going to play another".

So, they have pretty much said word for word that those 2 phrases would be unacceptable.

I know what you are getting at, because I'm guessing nearly every club golfer (or the vast majority) would simply assume a provisional was being played. However, they would get in a spot of bother if they were playing with a referee, or another golfer who knew the rule and was willing to challenge them on it.

I know that, it was already stated earlier. That was the reason I remarked, I thought it was funny because I would absolutely assume they meant provisional from those statements. In truth it should clearly stated either way - putting a new ball in play is a rarity so if I'm doing that I always make it very clear by literally saying "new ball in play, not provisional".

 

[Orikoru]

I’m of the opinion that unless someone explicitly states they are hitting a provisional, they are abandoning the first and the next ball is the one in play.

It removes any potential for players to decide which ball they would prefer to play.

You're correct in line with the rules, but in reality taking that view is definitely going to cause an argument because people almost never intend it that way.

 

[rulefan]

You're correct in line with the rules, but in reality taking that view is definitely going to cause an argument because people almost never intend it that way.

If they are never queried they will always cause confusion.

 

[Swango1980]

You're correct in line with the rules, but in reality taking that view is definitely going to cause an argument because people almost never intend it that way.

It depends who you play with. There would be some people that would argue if you mentioned any rules issue with them, like breaking the unfortunate news that their ball is out of bounds when they assumed it wasn't.

But, you are correct that this particular rule is probably one of the most frequently ignored. I was wondering what the implications would be if the Rule, in the future, was re-written so that if a player dropped another ball and played from the same spot as before, and said nothing, it was automatically assumed to be a provisional. Therefore, if they genuinely wanted to take stroke and distance immediately, they would then need to make that intention clear before playing the second ball. It just seems like in the vast majority of cases it would be obvious that the player would play a provisional as they'd love to find their first ball, but in the very rare occasions this is untrue, the player is making an unusual and specific decision not to play a provisional, and should therefore communicate that intent.

 

[Orikoru]

But, you are correct that this particular rule is probably one of the most frequently ignored. I was wondering what the implications would be if the Rule, in the future, was re-written so that if a player dropped another ball and played from the same spot as before, and said nothing, it was automatically assumed to be a provisional. Therefore, if they genuinely wanted to take stroke and distance immediately, they would then need to make that intention clear before playing the second ball. It just seems like in the vast majority of cases it would be obvious that the player would play a provisional as they'd love to find their first ball, but in the very rare occasions this is untrue, the player is making an unusual and specific decision not to play a provisional, and should therefore communicate that intent.

I mean, yeah, that's exactly how I'm saying it normally works already.

 

[D-S]

I believe that advice is the mostly commonly ignored, I would go as far as saying that the majority of players are unaware of it. I have never heard of any player penalised for it in a normal club competition that I have been involved in. I have never seen it applied in my experience.