The Real Problem with the NHS

[Ethan]

One of the main reasons for missed appointments, in my opinion, is that it takes so long to get an appointment that often the problem has cleared up of its own accord, so there is no need to go see the doc, and people forget about the appointment.
I conclude from this that many people are making unnecessary appointments and maybe they would be better seeing the chemist instead.

we are turning into a nation of wimps and wusses

Just my opinion of course

You are certainly right that people are far too readily calling the GP, pitching up to A&E or even calling an ambulance, but a lot of that is due to increased expectations fed by the Government and fostered by stuff like 111, which seems to blue light people to hospital very lightly. Triage (sorting out who is sick and who isn't) is a very difficult job to do properly, and needs to be done by a senior experienced person, not an inexperienced youth with a computer algorithm.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You are certainly right that people are far too readily calling the GP, pitching up to A&E or even calling an ambulance, but a lot of that is due to increased expectations fed by the Government and fostered by stuff like 111, which seems to blue light people to hospital very lightly. Triage (sorting out who is sick and who isn't) is a very difficult job to do properly, and needs to be done by a senior experienced person, not an inexperienced youth with a computer algorithm.

Which goes back to my original assertion of excessive and unrealistic feelings of entitlement and expectation in the public in respect of the NHS being a big problem for delivering services and for the moral and well-being of NHS staff.

My wife is fed up with petty whinging and $hit stirring from her NHS patients and their families and just tells them if they feel that strongly and hard done by then they know where to find the patient liaison service to register a complaint. And she finds it instructive that her private patients are so much less so - and grateful.

 

[Crazyface]

The problem is that in most other jobs a life isn't on the line. Whereas in hospital, it is, and people react, sometimes undeservingly, in an aggressive manner. BUT sometimes the reaction is deserving. If it's your mum, dad, sister, brother, whoever that isn't being treated in a manner that they should be, this will provoke an aggressive response from some. Should four people be sat at a desk of an evening, filling forms out, discussing patients this that the other? Maybe ONE competent admin person should be fullfilling this role and nurses should be getting on NURSING !!!!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Which goes back to my original assertion of excessive and unrealistic feelings of entitlement and expectation in the public in respect of the NHS being a big problem for delivering services and for the moral and well-being of NHS staff.

My wife is fed up with petty whinging and $hit stirring from her NHS patients and their families and just tells them if they feel that strongly and hard done by then they know where to find the patient liaison service to register a complaint. And she finds it instructive that her private patients are so much less so - and grateful.

I've experienced both private and non-private with the same staff and noticed they are more pleasant towards you when you're there as a private patient, maybe it's because they know you'll turn up and they are under less stress as well.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I've experienced both private and non-private with the same staff and noticed they are more pleasant towards you when you're there as a private patient, maybe it's because they know you'll turn up and they are under less stress as well.

whatever it might be - it's certainly something my OH notices. Where entitlement is a big issue is where, for instance, a lady after a mastectomy wishes reconstructive surgery. And for her that is the most important thing and so will complain like bu**ery if she feels her wishes and feelings are not being given the respect and priority that they deserve. Notwithstanding the fact that the consultant surgeon she must haver doing this reconstruction has his or her hands full of patients with breast cancer - whose condition is life-threatening - often very imminently - and surgery is urgent. Try telling that complaining woman that she has to wait and that frankly she is not the most important person on this planet. Well High Doh is struck.

And you know what - those NHS patients that whinge and shout loudest, longest and most disruptively will often get their way because the nurse specialists between the entitled patient and the consultants - well they are just worn down by them on top of everything else they are doing - dealing with woman diagnosed with cancer and often about to undergo life-saving surgery (or at least life extending). They just want these oh so self-important and entitled women seen, off their backs and out of the way. And to get that woman seen - the disruption and hassle that that causes. And thanks - no thanks - plenty of complaints from them about having to complain, having to wait - how disrespectfully they were treated.

Ah the poor NHS.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

whatever it might be - it's certainly something my OH notices. Where entitlement is a big issue is where, for instance, a lady after a mastectomy wishes reconstructive surgery. And for her that is the most important thing and so will complain like bu**ery if she feels her wishes and feelings are not being given the respect and priority that they deserve. Notwithstanding the fact that the consultant surgeon she must haver doing this reconstruction has his or her hands full of patients with breast cancer - whose condition is life-threatening - often very imminently - and surgery is urgent. Try telling that complaining woman that she has to wait and that frankly she is not the most important person on this planet. Well High Doh is struck.

And you know what - those NHS patients that whinge and shout loudest, longest and most disruptively will often get their way because the nurse specialists between the entitled patient and the consultants - well they are just worn down by them on top of everything else they are doing - dealing with woman diagnosed with cancer and often about to undergo life-saving surgery (or at least life extending). They just want these oh so self-important and entitled women seen, off their backs and out of the way. And to get that woman seen - the disruption and hassle that that causes. And thanks - no thanks - plenty of complaints from them about having to complain, having to wait - how disrespectfully they were treated.

Ah the poor NHS.

Not decrying the Staff or the wonderful job they do, as previously stated, they are an easy target,
Apologies if my post came across wrong, what I mean is, it must be nice to be treated properly and shouldn't be because the current patient has gone private.

 

[SocketRocket]

IMO, staff in the NHS are easy targets regardless of role, missed appointments for any reason is wrong, we need to educate people to communicate properly.
I understand this is an NHS thread but I just wish people had as much passion about fineing the bankers who caused the reccession or the tax dodgers, instead we blame the weakest and most vunerable of our society or the staff who are the front line of what is, even with the problems, the finest health care system in the world.

Oh! very original. Maybe we need something like a Bankers Bonus tax, a ban on Non-Doms and a Mansion tax, we could even pump up the top rate of tax to 50%. Thats the stuff to feed the troops on Christmas day!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

As a coincidence, just spent 6 hours at the RVI Hospital in Newcastle as my wife had an appointment, it was 6 hours as they were a Doctor short.
The staff were run off there feet and the complaining and moaning from people who had to put up with the other Doctors covering the shortfall and their appointment running late.
We were informed as soon as we arrived that one of the Doctors had suffered a death in his family and they were short staffed. Watching people continually harass the nurses and aux staff because they were not happy with the delay was quite frankly embarrassing, then they had the audacity to comment on how miserable the staff were!!! Damn right they were miserable, so would I be if i was getting moaned at all day.
They might not be perfect, but hats off to anyone working at the coal face in the NHS, I wouldn't do your job.
Rant Over

 

[SocketRocket]

As a coincidence, just spent 6 hours at the RVI Hospital in Newcastle as my wife had an appointment, it was 6 hours as they were a Doctor short.
The staff were run off there feet and the complaining and moaning from people who had to put up with the other Doctors covering the shortfall and their appointment running late.
We were informed as soon as we arrived that one of the Doctors had suffered a death in his family and they were short staffed. Watching people continually harass the nurses and aux staff because they were not happy with the delay was quite frankly embarrassing, then they had the audacity to comment on how miserable the staff were!!! Damn right they were miserable, so would I be if i was getting moaned at all day.
They might not be perfect, but hats off to anyone working at the coal face in the NHS, I wouldn't do your job.
Rant Over

It's the same everywhere these days. We would be much better off without customers expecting good service.

 

[bluewolf]

It's the same everywhere these days. We would be much better off without customers expecting good service.

Or maybe just understanding why the service they receive is so strained.

My wife worked in A&E for 5 years. It's a national disgrace that A&E departments now need "bouncers". My wife is just about as committed a public servant as you will find. However, after being physically and verbally assaulted on several occasions, she decided enough was enough. She now works in the community and loves her job.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Or maybe just understanding why the service they receive is so strained.

My wife worked in A&E for 5 years. It's a national disgrace that A&E departments now need "bouncers". My wife is just about as committed a public servant as you will find. However, after being physically and verbally assaulted on several occasions, she decided enough was enough. She now works in the community and loves her job.

Disgraceful your wife should have to suffer like that, should be an automatic jail sentence for anyone assaulting NHS Staff.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It's the same everywhere these days. We would be much better off without customers expecting good service.

They were getting a good service it was just taking longer than they wanted through nobody's fault,

 

[HomerJSimpson]

And you wonder why I struggle to recruit staff into A&E, midwives and in fact even HCA staff into a service where the crap they are expected to endure day in and day out is frankly intolerable. We lose so many newly qualified nurses within 12-18 months and many cite abuse and a lack of support services as the main reasons for going. Granted we are just outside of London and accept cost of living is much higher than other areas and that does play a big factor but many just don't need the crap they have to put up with day in and day out

 

[Tashyboy]

It's only free at the point of delivery Homer. The tax (NI) payer funds it (Some people seem to think it's Government funds, which don't exist) so making a small fine would only be a contribution to the fund. Maybe we should all pay a deposit at the GPs when we register, maybe £20, if you fail to attend an appointment then you lose your deposit and have to repay it. Or something similar.

Yup, that works for me, and am struggling to see why it's a problem. £20 to start, miss an appointment then £30 to register. Miss that then £40. They will soon Get to a stage where they won't miss an appointment.

yes Homer it is a free? Service but not one that should be readily abused.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yup, that works for me, and am struggling to see why it's a problem. £20 to start, miss an appointment then £30 to register. Miss that then £40. They will soon Get to a stage where they won't miss an appointment.

yes Homer it is a free? Service but not one that should be readily abused.

So I can't afford the fine, I know I'll pop along to A+E and get seen there!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

So I can't afford the fine, I know I'll pop along to A+E and get seen there!

My point entirely. Plenty that won't pay either to register or any fines imposed and will simply clog A&E on a daily basis. Totally agree with you

 

[SocketRocket]

My point entirely. Plenty that won't pay either to register or any fines imposed and will simply clog A&E on a daily basis. Totally agree with you

Homer, their fine will be losing their £20 deposit.

If they want to use A&E for something non urgent then charge them £20 (or take it from their deposit) It's not as difficult as you guys are making out. Same should apply to the weekend drunks that block A&E. It would make a lot of people think twice about abusing the NHS, which must be a good thing.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Homer, their fine will be losing their £20 deposit.

If they want to use A&E for something non urgent then charge them £20 (or take it from their deposit) It's not as difficult as you guys are making out. Same should apply to the weekend drunks that block A&E. It would make a lot of people think twice about abusing the NHS, which must be a good thing.

Who is going to administer all of this? Are you suggesting coughing up £20 on arrival at A&E to get seen. Really?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Homer, their fine will be losing their £20 deposit.

If they want to use A&E for something non urgent then charge them £20 (or take it from their deposit) It's not as difficult as you guys are making out. Same should apply to the weekend drunks that block A&E. It would make a lot of people think twice about abusing the NHS, which must be a good thing.

Who is going to enforce the fine or registration fee, what you are suggesting is a 2 tier NHS, those with money and those without, could it also lead to back street doctors?
What about an increase in people buying black market meds?

 

[SocketRocket]

Who is going to administer all of this? Are you suggesting coughing up £20 on arrival at A&E to get seen. Really?

Homer I have already explained the administration ad-nausiem. You would pay it once at your GP's for example and it would be on your computerised record. If you turn up for an appointment or go to A&E for a valid reason then you pay nothing else. Otherwise you lose your deposit and pay another. It's not so complicated.