The Real Problem with the NHS

[chrisd]

My mothers final couple of weeks were made unbelievably painful by incompetent staff at our local hospital, that's difficult to live with. I have paid for private medical insurance for many years and have made a fair few claims but the service has been impeccable.

My brother has worked in the NHS Estates most of his working life, recently the management decided to make cuts and got rid of his boss who,by all accounts, was one of the best engineers in the NHS but also the only one trained to work on the generator that kicks in if there's a power cut - just imagine the consequences when surgery is being performed and the generator doesn't kick in!

 

[Hobbit]

I've worked for, and as a supplier to, the NHS for 20 odd years. During that time I've also had need to sample their provision. There's fantastic and there's downright appalling. However, Chrisd's point about private healthcare and how good it is says it all. That's how good all parts of the NHS could and should be.

But how do we achieve that?

Take it out of the political arena. Agree what the NHS needs to put it right, e.g. the £8billion that is spoken of, and then ring fence that budget + 'x'% per annum to pay for the advances in medicine. And then set up a non-political organisation to run it.

 

[SocketRocket]

I've worked for, and as a supplier to, the NHS for 20 odd years. During that time I've also had need to sample their provision. There's fantastic and there's downright appalling. However, Chrisd's point about private healthcare and how good it is says it all. That's how good all parts of the NHS could and should be.

But how do we achieve that?

Take it out of the political arena. Agree what the NHS needs to put it right, e.g. the £8billion that is spoken of, and then ring fence that budget + 'x'% per annum to pay for the advances in medicine. And then set up a non-political organisation to run it.

Some good points there. The big problem is that throwing money at the NHS will not fix it, it has the capacity to swallow up infinite amounts without improving customer service.

My opinion which will not go down well with many is that we should look seriously at privatising as much of the administration and services as possible while still keeping the principle of free treatment at the point of delivery. Rejecting this form of change out of hand is IMO is blinkered and Luddite.

 

[c1973]

I've only ever experienced excellent care from the NHS. I'm not saying they are without fault, but I can only comment on my own experience of the service.



Something that caught my attention the other day was a discussion on the NHS that mentioned 1 out of 3 GPs wanted to retire early. This was being held up as an indicator that all was not well with GPs working conditions so something had to be done.

Really?

I'm pretty sure if you surveyed a number of brickies labourers and asked them if they'd like to retire that the figure would be somewhat north of 33%............should something be done?

 

[SocketRocket]

I've only ever experienced excellent care from the NHS. I'm not saying they are without fault, but I can only comment on my own experience of the service.



Something that caught my attention the other day was a discussion on the NHS that mentioned 1 out of 3 GPs wanted to retire early. This was being held up as an indicator that all was not well with GPs working conditions so something had to be done.

Really?

I'm pretty sure if you surveyed a number of brickies labourers and asked them if they'd like to retire that the figure would be somewhat north of 33%............should something be done?

:thup:

 

[Kellfire]

As a low level manager in the NHS this thread is intriguing...

All I'll say! Lol.

 

[Foxholer]

Some good points there. The big problem is that throwing money at the NHS will not fix it, it has the capacity to swallow up infinite amounts without improving customer service.

My opinion which will not go down well with many is that we should look seriously at privatising as much of the administration and services as possible while still keeping the principle of free treatment at the point of delivery. Rejecting this form of change out of hand is IMO is blinkered and Luddite.

I certainly agree with the first paragraph!

However, I'm not so convinced with that the 2nd would work as is!

It's highly likely that the simple 'privatisation' of administration would simply quantify the existing costs and add Profit and Contingency, thus sucking even more cash out of the system! There are plenty of horror stories about such deals.

What could well work though is a move to 'along privatised lines' - where the same drive for administrative efficiency is encouraged/demanded, but where the benefits (cash to improve services) stay within the existing setup (Trust).

Having another interface - between the publicly managed/funded clinical staff and the privately run admin staff - is also fraught with potential disasters! There would have to be so many Service Level Agreements that much of the possible benefits would be lost in managing the interface! That already appears to be the case with the entirely false (imo) concept of a Nursing Bank - I don't believe there actually is a cost saving - in fact, it costs more - simply a 'head-count' saving (as Bank Nursing staff aren't included in that figure!)!

 

[Leereed]

Play with a lad who works for the nhs,he's some sort of consultant. Told me he on 110k a year he does a 4 day week, got £500 a month towards a car(top af range A5).gold plated pension. And hes on full pay for 12 months on sick with stress. So do I feel sorry for nhs staff, no I don't.like the rest of us if they don't like it get another job.

 

[6inchcup]

Play with a lad who works for the nhs,he's some sort of consultant. Told me he on 110k a year he does a 4 day week, got £500 a month towards a car(top af range A5).gold plated pension. And hes on full pay for 12 months on sick with stress. So do I feel sorry for nhs staff, no I don't.like the rest of us if they don't like it get another job.

i think he could be an exeption my mates daughter is a juniour nurse get 18 k a year and is working 12 hour shift,after paying rent food etc got very little to show for it each month.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

During the last NHS strike did it not come out that qualified midwifes were earning £39k a year ?
If true, that sounds like a decent salary to me, striking for more pay smacks of being greedy.

 

[Ethan]

Play with a lad who works for the nhs,he's some sort of consultant. Told me he on 110k a year he does a 4 day week, got £500 a month towards a car(top af range A5).gold plated pension. And hes on full pay for 12 months on sick with stress. So do I feel sorry for nhs staff, no I don't.like the rest of us if they don't like it get another job.

That anecdote, even if true and I doubt that it is, says nothing about typical salary levels in the NHS. It does say something about the odd fatcat consultant currently being paid megabucks to preparer parts of the NHS for sell-off. And these people are exactly the reason that the Govt are suppressing salary levels, cutting back on pension promises, charging ordinary staff for car parking at work etc etc.

I am more than happy for these guys like your Audi driving £11ok a year mate to be kicked to of the NHS pronto, and the more the merrier.

 

[6inchcup]

During the last NHS strike did it not come out that qualified midwifes were earning £39k a year ?
If true, that sounds like a decent salary to me, striking for more pay smacks of being greedy.

i earn more than that,and i dont have the stress and the life of another 2 people in my hands,plus i dont work unsocial hours and i have 3 days off per week.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Newly qualified band 5 midwives start around £21,600 and once they move to band 6, £39k is almost the top and only payable after many annual increments during which time they will have been involved in many life and death cases and been present at hundreds of births. I think you have to use a real sense of judgement before being so quick to call them greedy. I would say for those coming straight out of uni, probably with inevitable debt and then trying to live on c£22k including having to pay for somewhere to live isn't perhaps as easy as some are suggesting. Same applies to band 5 nurses too

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Newly qualified band 5 midwives start around £21,600 and once they move to band 6, £39k is almost the top and only payable after many annual increments during which time they will have been involved in many life and death cases and been present at hundreds of births. I think you have to use a real sense of judgement before being so quick to call them greedy. I would say for those coming straight out of uni, probably with inevitable debt and then trying to live on c£22k including having to pay for somewhere to live isn't perhaps as easy as some are suggesting. Same applies to band 5 nurses too

Great to see someone posting facts, rather than rumours or political spin. Definitely one group of workers that deserve to be well paid.

 

[SocketRocket]

i think he could be an exeption my mates daughter is a juniour nurse get 18 k a year and is working 12 hour shift,after paying rent food etc got very little to show for it each month.

Nurses start on more than that and their salaries tend to increase by grades and provide a very competitive wage. There are also payments for unsocial hours and an excellent pension scheme. She could do a lot worse.

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/adult_nurse_salary.htm

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Those agenda for change rates are slightly out of date and band 5 starts at £21,697 (off to the top of my head but not far off) effective 1st April

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Nurses start on more than that and their salaries tend to increase by grades and provide a very competitive wage. There are also payments for unsocial hours and an excellent pension scheme. She could do a lot worse.

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/adult_nurse_salary.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-Labour-demand-inquiry-Mail-revelations.html

 

[SocketRocket]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-Labour-demand-inquiry-Mail-revelations.html

If you quote me and post something like that then it would be best if you explained the relevance of your point! I don't condone those salaries given to NHS executives but thats nothing to do with my previous post.

 

[SocketRocket]

Those agenda for change rates are slightly out of date and band 5 starts at £21,697 (off to the top of my head but not far off) effective 1st April

But not the £18K previously quoted.

 

[bluewolf]

But not the £18K previously quoted.

The pay grade that HJS posted above is for a graduate Nurse entering at Band 5. There are several grades of Nurse below that who start out earning substantially less (I believe as low as £15k)