The Real Problem with the NHS

pauldj42 said:
Who is going to enforce the fine or registration fee, what you are suggesting is a 2 tier NHS, those with money and those without, could it also lead to back street doctors?
What about an increase in people buying black market meds?
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You either don't bother reading posts or don't digest them before firing from the hip!

I have explained how simple it would be to administer the deposits and how it could be applied to those not turning up for appointments or abusing A&E.

Dont understand where you get the two tier NHS from. It would be the same for everyone.

Are you honestly saying people would rather pay back street Doctors or use back street meds rather than pay a £20 deposit that they would not need to pay again if they didn't abuse the NHS. Come on now; think about it!
 
SocketRocket said:
You either don't bother reading posts or don't digest them before firing from the hip!

I have explained how simple it would be to administer the deposits and how it could be applied to those not turning up for appointments or abusing A&E.

Dont understand where you get the two tier NHS from. It would be the same for everyone.

Are you honestly saying people would rather pay back street Doctors or use back street meds rather than pay a £20 deposit that they would not need to pay again if they didn't abuse the NHS. Come on now; think about it!
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It's only simple in your opinion, just saying "oh it's easy and admin staff could manage" is firing from the hip, whether it is £2.00 or £20.00 it is public money and there is allsorts of rules and guidelines that go along with this. When do you pay? at birth?
You do realise the population of the UK is 64 Million, times that by £20.00,
128 Million pound just sitting somewhere not really being looked after,
 
pauldj42 said:
It's only simple in your opinion, just saying "oh it's easy and admin staff could manage" is firing from the hip, whether it is £2.00 or £20.00 it is public money and there is allsorts of rules and guidelines that go along with this. When do you pay? at birth?
You do realise the population of the UK is 64 Million, times that by £20.00,
128 Million pound just sitting somewhere not really being looked after,
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So you don't read the posts before shooting from the hip. Again! You pay the deposit when you register and it could well be only when you are an adult.

It is easy but you don't want to understand that.

As it would only be for adults it would be somewhat less than £128 Mil. Why are you concerned with what the fund would be used for? I would make a suggestion that as it's non returnable it could go into employing some more NHS staff.

Things can be improved, it takes a will to do it though. Are you content with the current levels of missed appointments and abuse of A&E services? If you are, then all is well in your world, if not then what do you consider we could do to improve things?

This may be of some help to you!

You've got to accentuate the positive
eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
But don't mess with mister inbetween
 
SocketRocket said:
So you don't read the posts before shooting from the hip. Again! You pay the deposit when you register and it could well be only when you are an adult.

It is easy but you don't want to understand that.

As it would only be for adults it would be somewhat less than £128 Mil. Why are you concerned with what the fund would be used for? I would make a suggestion that as it's non returnable it could go into employing some more NHS staff.

Things can be improved, it takes a will to do it though. Are you content with the current levels of missed appointments and abuse of A&E services? If you are, then all is well in your world, if not then what do you consider we could do to improve things?

This may be of some help to you!

You've got to accentuate the positive
eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
But don't mess with mister inbetween
Click to expand...
Song lyrics......sums your argument up!
Nobody has said do nothing, everyone agrees something needs to be done, but simply putting another underhand tax on the problem solves nothing.
Depending on what source you read/trust the figure for missed appointments is between 5-15% therefore 85-95% are attended, so lets levy the 85%!
Maybe it's time to employ more Doctors and invest properly in the NHS, one thing all parties agree is needed, and rather then people wouldn't be waiting weeks and months for appts.
 
bobmac said:
I had the occasion to visit my local medical centre for a possible tennis elbow. I was seen on time very polite nurse, all in all a very pleasant experience. What did amaze me was a sign on the wall next to reception......... Missed appointments for March......304 :eek:
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HomerJSimpson said:
Went to my GP last week for a diabetic review. Missed appointments = 242 for the previous month and that's just the local surgery. You can imagine how that would impact any NHS hospital and the lost time (and revenue in some cases) could have been used on a patient needing help and prepared to accept and attend
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pauldj42 said:
Song lyrics......sums your argument up!
Nobody has said do nothing, everyone agrees something needs to be done, but simply putting another underhand tax on the problem solves nothing.
Depending on what source you read/trust the figure for missed appointments is between 5-15% therefore 85-95% are attended, so lets levy the 85%!
Maybe it's time to employ more Doctors and invest properly in the NHS, one thing all parties agree is needed, and rather then people wouldn't be waiting weeks and months for appts.
Click to expand...

If you think the problem is insignificant then the above numbers seem to show a different trend. Forget percentages, if this number of people are missing appointments then it's a real problem.

Regarding throwing money at the problem as you are suggesting then where do you think that will come from then. Come on then tell me all about Bankers Bonuses, Tax Dodgers and Mansion tax :rolleyes:
 
Picked up OH from work yesterday and gave her boss a lift home. And what was the topic of their discussion in the car. Some NHS woman has complained about delays between the different stages of her treatment and management (which she is now through with for the time being) - the 'delays' actually being the normal periods in the NHS between the stages of her being seen and treated. Oh yes - also complaining about the way she was told that she had breast cancer. So how was she told? The consultant told her straight out at their first consultation following the investigation that she has breast cancer. Yup - she thought this was too 'abrupt' and insensitive. And as a result my OH and her boss have spent hours over the last two days looking back in their notes and responding to the complaint and as a result have fallen behind in their management of other new patients. And if these patients get upset...and so it goes on.
 
SocketRocket said:
If you think the problem is insignificant then the above numbers seem to show a different trend. Forget percentages, if this number of people are missing appointments then it's a real problem.

Regarding throwing money at the problem as you are suggesting then where do you think that will come from then. Come on then tell me all about Bankers Bonuses, Tax Dodgers and Mansion tax :rolleyes:
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How can you quote a trend from 1 months figures! It coukd be half the previous months and be improving!
Didn't suggest throwing money at it, said correctly funded, why does everything come down to political allegiance, regardless of being Labour or Tory, it should be looked after and not something else privatised to make a profit, why can't it be run correctly, staffed correctly and make a profit for the treasurey?
 
pauldj42 said:
How can you quote a trend from 1 months figures! It coukd be half the previous months and be improving!
Didn't suggest throwing money at it, said correctly funded, why does everything come down to political allegiance, regardless of being Labour or Tory, it should be looked after and not something else privatised to make a profit, why can't it be run correctly, staffed correctly and make a profit for the treasurey?
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It's not a short term or temporary thing. last year 2 million GP appointments were missed and thats not taking account of Hospital day appointments. It's not realistic to make a comment that as a percentage of the UK population thats not a lot. The whole population are not going to hospital or the Doctors.

Read this:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/2014/03/05/missed-appts/

I fail to see why you have now brought privatisation into the subject and cant understand your last comment, does it have something to do with the subject we have been discussing or have you just thrown in a red-herring?
 
I think we should agree to dissgree, hopefully play a round together and share a pint afterwards😜
 
pauldj42 said:
I think we should agree to dissgree, hopefully play a round together and share a pint afterwards😜
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SocketRocket said:
I think you're right, we've probably exhausted the subject from our own perspectives. Hope we can do that sometime :cheers:
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Praise the Lord, I was losing the will to live and that would be costly to the NHS
More folk need to agree to disagree:thup:
 
PhilTheFragger said:
Praise the Lord, I was losing the will to live and that would be costly to the NHS
More folk need to agree to disagree:thup:
Click to expand...

I disagree to agree to disagree but I agree that agreeing to disagree is an agreement compromise to agree to disagree, do you agree :confused:

:smirk:
 
Fish said:
I disagree to agree to disagree but I agree that agreeing to disagree is an agreement compromise to agree to disagree, do you agree :confused:

:smirk:
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I hope your thumb gets better soon - looks liek you are going mad with cabin fever :D
 
For a start, 64 million times £20 is not £128m, it's £1.28 billion...

And I totally agree with some form of minimal charge for GP registration and missed appointments.

The system would be easily adapted from the one used by dentists... There is precedent and a system ready to be copied over.

But with dentists, those on some benefits get free dental care, so if you adapted that system you may well exempt the main group of people who DNA...
 
Kellfire said:
The system would be easily adapted from the one used by dentists... There is precedent and a system ready to be copied over.
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I don't think that this is a good idea. Principally because I've been phoned by my dentist's secretary recently who said "Mr Cxxxxx doesn't have any time to see you as an NHS patient due to his teaching role at the university, however, if you sign up to DenPlan I'm sure he'll be able to fit you in".

So he can see me if I go private, but not if I'm NHS.

Seriously, this is the way things will go.
 
Kellfire said:
For a start, 64 million times £20 is not £128m, it's £1.28 billion...

And I totally agree with some form of minimal charge for GP registration and missed appointments.

The system would be easily adapted from the one used by dentists... There is precedent and a system ready to be copied over.

But with dentists, those on some benefits get free dental care, so if you adapted that system you may well exempt the main group of people who DNA...
Click to expand...
Well spotted on the maths, can someone show me the facts were it states that the worst offenders for DNA are people on benefits, especially as Doctors/Hospitals etc only give out numbers and nothing else, or are we once again blaming the easy target?
 
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