The problem with golf ....

[Trojan615]

Interesting points on the discussion about hogan / Nike folding on a us site....

Unfortunately this is the direction the golf business/game is going. The game is too hard to master, too expensive for the middle class and takes too long to play for working people..

Is this true ?
Is it time for a major change in the way we play the game ( less clubs - cheaper) or less holes - quicker rounds ? Discuss

 

[Crow]

Hard to master is one of it's attractions.

Like most things, how much you want to spend is down to the individual.

I like the fact that it takes 3 to 4 hours to play a round, I play for relaxation and enjoyment.


No need to change anything for me.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Interesting points on the discussion about hogan / Nike folding on a us site....

Unfortunately this is the direction the golf business/game is going. The game is too hard to master, too expensive for the middle class and takes too long to play for working people..

Is this true ?
Is it time for a major change in the way we play the game ( less clubs - cheaper) or less holes - quicker rounds ? Discuss

Don't see the need to change

The game can be as cheap or as expensive as you want - you can prob get a full set of clubs for under £200 that will last years

You can get cheap memberships and rounds of golf

And there are many ways to play quicker rounds

Any sport is hard to master hence why only the very best do master it

 

[PJ87]

Don't see the need to change

The game can be as cheap or as expensive as you want - you can prob get a full set of clubs for under £200 that will last years

You can get cheap memberships and rounds of golf

And there are many ways to play quicker rounds

Any sport is hard to master hence why only the very best do master it

doesnt have to be expensive , teeofftimes is full of offers.. my mate played 85 rounds last year he said he didnt pay more than £20 a round for the rounds out of the society

we played today £16 for 18 holes plus breakfast

I enjoy the fact it takes 3-4 hours a round myself because I dont want to be home about 2 hours after ive left im going to relax and unwind

 

[Face breaker]

I see where you're coming from but as has already been said 'golf clubs' and gear in general can be as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be, decent used 'brand name' clubs can be picked up on eBay for less than 200 notes (I picked up a set of 2yr old Speedblades t'other day for 106 smackers, yes you read that correct) and if your real savvy decent ones can be had for less than 100 notes, as for bags 'take your pick' the rest is all by the by...

Memberships are much the same as long as you're not too bothered about either travelling a few miles or the standard of the course, the higher the standard of course/club the more you're gonna pay, plenty of 'pay n plays' are cheap as chips, as for time constraints well once again you can play for as much or as little as you want and as many holes as you want at a time, nobody says you have to play all 18 every time... :thup:

 

[duncan mackie]

Don't see the need to change

The game can be as cheap or as expensive as you want - you can prob get a full set of clubs for under £200 that will last years

You can get cheap memberships and rounds of golf

And there are many ways to play quicker rounds

Any sport is hard to master hence why only the very best do master it

Eloquent - completely agree. At times its hard to discern whether the equipement and media (TV etc) drive, or are driven, by the underlying sport.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

compare golf with Footy, lets say a decent championship team like Leeds
Season tickets average at just under £500 which isnt too different to my current 5 day membership
or you can buy tickets for the match V Derby for between £25-38 which is a decent green fee
Ok you dont need any kit to watch footy, but you will buy a scarf and a shirt, and for the kid as well

You will also buy a pie or a Bovril at HT

as for time, you need to be there at least 30 mins before kick off and you have to travel to the ground, plus
transport/parking costs and it will take you 20 minutes plus to get out at the end, even for a home game you are going to be out of the house for at least 3 possibly 4 hours if you have a jar afterwards.


So to summarise, there isnt that much to choose between Golf and watching footy in terms of cost and time spent away from ones humble abode

 

[Tongo]

Think thats just an easy generalisation. I play after work on a Friday in the summer, normally paying no more than 20 quid for a round. Me and my dad get round in about 3 hours and the fact that the game is hard to master makes it all the more addictive. It is the hardest game i've played by some distance but easily the most addictive.

Nothing needs to change.

 

[rob_golf1]

I would say some of these are the best things about golf.

As it has previously been outlined, golf is as expensive as you want! You can pick up sets for £99 if you shop around. I paid £15 for 18 holes on New Years Eve with a full English Breakfast! Can't complain with that at all and the course was great given the time of year.

Golf being a difficult sport to master is (personally) one of the reasons I love it. It makes me want to come back for more and get better each time I play.

 

[davemc1]

I'm not sure you'll get a balanced view from the forum on this subject. Obviously we're all golf nuts else we wouldn't be here. So our opinion generally speaking is we can't get enough of it.

I feel the answer may lie in your part time golfers. Some who only play a handful of times a year, be it in societies or corporates that take up most of the day.

 

[351DRIVER]

Hard to master is one of it's attractions. BANG ON....

Like most things, how much you want to spend is down to the individual.

I like the fact that it takes 3 to 4 hours to play a round, I play for relaxation and enjoyment.


No need to change anything for me.

There is lifelong satisfaction in achieving a reasonable standard in something challenging making golf easy is the wrong way to go. the game used to be MUCH harder (I grew up with Persimmon()


It is very easy to pin popular labels on why golf is struggling

Too Expensive
Too Difficult

The reasons why golf is struggling are many and saying that middle class do not have the money whilst working class do not have the time is bizarre to say the least *The working class have the cash then?

My own view is a lot of loyally to clubs is being lost with all the discounts offered, earlier in the thread someone said his pal played 80 odd rounds, that is great, thing is though he might move house tomorrow, or change job etc and he would find it very easy to slip away from the game x this by millions of golfers being encouraged to seek out bargains (Which means do not commit to memberships) and the overall result is golfers are less likely to stick. Golf would be ok if the new golfers could be retained better.

A quid a hole or whatever is insanely cheap an you can play golf for this, i do not buy that it is too expensive, Ebay means you can find a massive array of clubs for under 100 quid.

Too difficult? My opinion this is a synrome society is apparently promoting which is whiny pussy syndrome

Too little time? People have more time than ever before, they just use it poorly, spending time on electronic gadgets

 

[Reemul]

The problem is everyone is different. I am 45, 15 years a go I played 2 or 3 times a week, worked in retail had 2 days off in the week and had no kids.

Now I have 2 kids and get weekends only off. I love my kids and spending time with them take a priority over doing stuff on my own, I know this won't last forever so want to make the most of it. My youngest plays football on Saturday and Sunday mornings and the eldest has golf lessons on a Saturday morning as well. 3 days out of 5 in the week they do swimming, soccer and after school stuff.

Getting the eldest into golf, he is 10 now means this summer we can go out together and the youngest is pretty useful as well so he can come if he wants to.

I want to play more golf, there is just not enough time, I also want time to watch more movies,read more books, have time with just the wife let alone play more golf. Busy busy busy. Cost is not too bad, but I don't belong to a club because apparently as I am not 25-40 I don't qualify for any sort of special membership yet some friends and family members who are in that bracket and earn more than me do. £1000 a year doesn't sound like much but it is if you can't play weekly.

I have just cancelled my phone contract and moved to a sim monthly and saved a fair bit which I am hoping to put towards a club membership but for me time and cost restricts how often I play and this restricts how good I can become at it. My brother in law now plays off 5 and plays across every weekend, he has a 2 year old little girl who he never sees, personally I wonder why he had a child as she doesn't seem to have a dad, well one to play with and go out with.

Life is a balance and unfortunately golf doesn't quite fit that balance, however one day it will, my father in law who is 69 and mother in law who is 65 have been playing for a year and love it, the fact they had 5 kids and 14 grandchildren is probably why they started so late, I hope to be a little younger.

So for some cost and time is an issue, those that have time and money probably already play it's how do you get those that don't to play if numbers are dropping.

 

[Qwerty]

It isn't just golf that's in decline its most sports in general, Why? I can only think that people have far more options nowadays when It comes to spare time.

For me the difficulty is the attraction and I'm sure it's got to be the same for most who play the game, I can't honestly see how you could change it without changing it completely due to the H'cap system.

I don't and never have thought that there is a problem with golf.
It is what it is and personally I wouldn't change anything about it.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Hard to master is one of it's attractions.

Like most things, how much you want to spend is down to the individual.

I like the fact that it takes 3 to 4 hours to play a round, I play for relaxation and enjoyment.


No need to change anything for me.

What he said ^^^

If it was easier and shorter, I'd probably stop playing.

 

[351DRIVER]

How many play EA sports games but do not actually play the sports?

My view is the main issue golf has is that people are so conditioned to short distractions that eat their time that their mindset does not allow for 4 hours away from phones, messages, newsfeeds and the like... i know unemployed people that think they are busy, they are obviously not they just have a great capacity to waste time

 

[Qwerty]

What he said ^^^

If it was easier and shorter, I'd probably stop playing.

^^^^
This, Without a doubt!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

It's a sport that not even the best ever managed to totally master all of the time. That endless search for "the round" is what brings us all back, irrespective of handicap or standard. If it was easier or made quicker you'd find for every newbie it enticed you'd arguably (and in my opinion) lose 2-3 current golfers. It doesn't need to be expensive, there is a lot being done at many clubs to make it more inclusive and while there is work to be done it is moving in the right direction generally

 

[PJ87]

There is lifelong satisfaction in achieving a reasonable standard in something challenging making golf easy is the wrong way to go. the game used to be MUCH harder (I grew up with Persimmon()


It is very easy to pin popular labels on why golf is struggling

Too Expensive
Too Difficult

The reasons why golf is struggling are many and saying that middle class do not have the money whilst working class do not have the time is bizarre to say the least *The working class have the cash then?

My own view is a lot of loyally to clubs is being lost with all the discounts offered, earlier in the thread someone said his pal played 80 odd rounds, that is great, thing is though he might move house tomorrow, or change job etc and he would find it very easy to slip away from the game x this by millions of golfers being encouraged to seek out bargains (Which means do not commit to memberships) and the overall result is golfers are less likely to stick. Golf would be ok if the new golfers could be retained better.

A quid a hole or whatever is insanely cheap an you can play golf for this, i do not buy that it is too expensive, Ebay means you can find a massive array of clubs for under 100 quid.

Too difficult? My opinion this is a synrome society is apparently promoting which is whiny pussy syndrome

Too little time? People have more time than ever before, they just use it poorly, spending time on electronic gadgets

I said to him once if the wife ever says to him cut down he could just join a club he said "that would bore the hell out of me, I love the challenge of new courses. Playing the same course all the time would bore me"

took him to my old club today.. par 72 he hit 82 playing off 10, good considering he never been there

 

[MikeH]

very interesting thread with some well though provoking views

as many will know I have written several eds letters in the mag and contributed threads on here about the 'growth' (or rather the decline) of the game especially why new people aren't getting into golf in the numbers that we saw 10 or 20 years ago and why some people are drifting away from the game

In my view all the reasons mentioned in the OP ARE genuine factors that contribute to fewer people taking it up and indeed some people playing less/no longer playing

BUT… as several posters have said two of the things that are quoted as limiting growth - the challenge of the game and the fact its a very pleasant 3-4 hours plus a bit of social either side - are actually reasons why we, as established, committed golfers love it!

however every stat or bit of research I see says the game is in significant decline when measured by the number of people actively playing/taking it up

I'm interested to hear some more views from forumers on why/what factors they think are behind the game not growing? and does it actually matter if headline participation numbers are in decline?

 

[Old Skier]

Mike

i would be interested if your information is based on decline in golf membership or if it includes "what appears to me" a growth in the amount of society golf that goes on.

If it's a decrease in membership and an increase in society golf, I put a lot of that down to clubs. Around here, a lot of the time, it is cheaper to book in as a society than it is to use a county card.

IMO no society green fee deal should better the cost of using a county card and should cost more.