He plays of +2.4 !! He doesnt have problems !!
The great drive for dough putt for show debate thread.
He plays of +2.4 !! He doesnt have problems !!
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
If he wants to be good he does. + 2.4 is nowhere near good enough for a tour player.
In the world of animal golf experts King Louie is an amateur compared to King Julian. What King Louie says just isn't worth listening to. King Julian however, always wise.............
Indeed. Tour pros are reckoned to be +7 to +9 I think. +5 needed to really give it a go.
That guys problem maybe his short game, but the main point is that one cannot extract useful general data from one golfer, even worse, one throwaway remark.
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
Article about the pros
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Pants
Challenge Tour Pro
I always thought that on the score card, a 150/200/250/300 yd drive counted exactly the same a a 25 ft/6" tap in putt. It's what you do in between that's important.
Just sayin'
Just sayin'
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
If its all about hitting the ball as few times as possible, then you can not reduce your number of tee shots, but...
And you understand correctly. The number of inbetween shots determines the score on top of the obligatory 36. And the 300 yd drive player will gave fewer inbetween than the 150yd player...
King Julian
Member
King Julian sees you have not finished your post. Is it king Julian has seen many people 2 putt out for a 12.
Jimaroid
Journeyman Pro
Not if the 300 yard player loses their ball they won't.
Distance is useless without control. The only reasons it works "on tour" is because they have significantly reduced chances of losing their ball due to many factors.
There is a problematic gap with elite amatuers who can hit the balls miles but cannot find their ball. Those players would be much better playing shorter off the tee.
It's simply daft to choose one statistic and apply it to every player and every scenario in golf.
Backache
Assistant Pro
I think one thing that is missing from this debate is a sense of detail and nuance.
There is clear evidence that length is a significant advantage and should be taken advantage of where possible . There is also good evidence that losing balls and putting them into poor lies is a a significant disadvantage.
There is always nuance as to when each is likely and different players will have different dispersions and the average effect of each dispersion will vary quite considerably from hole to hole in different seasons according to the state of the rough and in different weather conditions. That is the challenge of golf.
Remember Mark Broadie the doyen of stokes gained states that for amateur golfers the number one priority off the tee is avoid trouble and then umber two is distance.
Lou Stagner the current go to stats guy is curretnly taking lessons in order to reduce his dispersion and is losing distance and improving his golf.
There is clear evidence that length is a significant advantage and should be taken advantage of where possible . There is also good evidence that losing balls and putting them into poor lies is a a significant disadvantage.
There is always nuance as to when each is likely and different players will have different dispersions and the average effect of each dispersion will vary quite considerably from hole to hole in different seasons according to the state of the rough and in different weather conditions. That is the challenge of golf.
Remember Mark Broadie the doyen of stokes gained states that for amateur golfers the number one priority off the tee is avoid trouble and then umber two is distance.
Lou Stagner the current go to stats guy is curretnly taking lessons in order to reduce his dispersion and is losing distance and improving his golf.
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Backache
Assistant Pro
I also don't perceive a contradiction between improving technique and seeking to increase club head speed the rational thing is to attempt both. The priority will vary from golfer to golfer according to their existing abilities.
Barking_Mad
Well-known member
That's not how it works though because if you give up 10 yards you'd be hitting a club more into each hole, therefore you'd be further from the hole on average, leaving you longer putts.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
If they had one-putted it would have been an 11, but there was only ever going to be one tee shot.
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
It’s all relative to your ability.
The low single figure and better golfer will already have a solid long and short game or they wouldn’t be there, getting the chips n pitches closer to the hole will result in shorter putts = lower scores.
The high handicapper needs to keep their drives in play, not mess up their second shot and aim for the centre of the green, basically just get on the green in 2 under your net.
They are different ball games
The low single figure and better golfer will already have a solid long and short game or they wouldn’t be there, getting the chips n pitches closer to the hole will result in shorter putts = lower scores.
The high handicapper needs to keep their drives in play, not mess up their second shot and aim for the centre of the green, basically just get on the green in 2 under your net.
They are different ball games
Barking_Mad
Well-known member
It's perfectly possible to play good golf (say shoot below 90) without hitting driver on a course about 6000 yards or so.
The longer the course and/or the lower you want to get your handicap then the longer you have to hit the ball, but without incurring penalties off the tee which we all know kill scores more often than not.
The longer the course and/or the lower you want to get your handicap then the longer you have to hit the ball, but without incurring penalties off the tee which we all know kill scores more often than not.
Backache
Assistant Pro
Incidentally
Putt for dough is a phrase and not something with a precise definition.
In one sense I think modern statistical analysis actually makes the phrase have real meaning.
Most golfers particularly high level professional golfers who are playing for real dough have a very stable performance tee to green and their performance changes relatively little week to week. When they are playing for the real dough though is when their putting is improved and the strokes gained putting of each winner on the PGA tour is usually high the week they win even if overall they are an average putter.
Putt for dough is a phrase and not something with a precise definition.
In one sense I think modern statistical analysis actually makes the phrase have real meaning.
Most golfers particularly high level professional golfers who are playing for real dough have a very stable performance tee to green and their performance changes relatively little week to week. When they are playing for the real dough though is when their putting is improved and the strokes gained putting of each winner on the PGA tour is usually high the week they win even if overall they are an average putter.
King Julian
Member
King Julian once saw someone hit 5 tee shots off the same tee in the same round. It wasn't a pretty site. King Julian doesnt remember if they one putted or not.
pendodave
Tour Rookie
My impression from reading this thread is that there's a whole bunch of golfers who cannot be persuaded to change their thinking about golf in the face of any presented statistically coherent evidence,
Which is fine. It's a hobby. no-one dies.
One thing that stats can belp with is the mental side of the game.
Knowing how likely it is that you'll miss a green from 100yds from the middle of the fairway, or miss a putt from 10ft, or 3 putt from 50ft might make it easier to move onto the next shot in a better frame of mind.
Sometimes it's the (misplaced) hope that kills ya.
Which is fine. It's a hobby. no-one dies.
One thing that stats can belp with is the mental side of the game.
Knowing how likely it is that you'll miss a green from 100yds from the middle of the fairway, or miss a putt from 10ft, or 3 putt from 50ft might make it easier to move onto the next shot in a better frame of mind.
Sometimes it's the (misplaced) hope that kills ya.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Then that player certainly wasn't driving for dough and his putting was surely just for show after that start to the hole.
