Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Which is all true, but has nothing to do with "putting for dough."
The great drive for dough putt for show debate thread.
D
Deleted member 25575
Guest
Of course it does, there are simply less chances to separate yourself on the green than off the tee!
Good driving and average putting is better than average driving and good putting
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
For me,
8-over par with 35 putts - poor. Good long game that day. Not in best 8.
3-over par with 28 putts - good. Poor long game that day. In best 8 and a cut.
Long game and putting both good - a one-over-par round this year - score differential of 0.2 and my best round for three years.
I did all my "strokes gained" knowledge, by experience, over a very long time.
When I go out to play - I know what could produce good scores and poor scores - I don't need telling.
8-over par with 35 putts - poor. Good long game that day. Not in best 8.
3-over par with 28 putts - good. Poor long game that day. In best 8 and a cut.
Long game and putting both good - a one-over-par round this year - score differential of 0.2 and my best round for three years.
I did all my "strokes gained" knowledge, by experience, over a very long time.
When I go out to play - I know what could produce good scores and poor scores - I don't need telling.
D
Deleted member 25575
Guest
Your difference in number of putts is 7 in the first 2 examples, yet your score differs by 6.
If you had a poor long game versus a good long game as you suggest in those 2 rounds, then you must have have a brilliant short game, which leads me to believe that those 28 putts were a lot of the time pretty short and insignificant, where are your 35 putts were much more likely to have been first putts from a lot further out.
You putting isn’t your difference here
If you had a poor long game versus a good long game as you suggest in those 2 rounds, then you must have have a brilliant short game, which leads me to believe that those 28 putts were a lot of the time pretty short and insignificant, where are your 35 putts were much more likely to have been first putts from a lot further out.
You putting isn’t your difference here
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Didn't you know that hitting it further means you're suddenly out of bounds or in the trees every time? And that hitting it shorter means you hit every fairway?
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
Same as hitting an iron off the tee guarantees hitting the fairway.
If this was the case no one would miss a green on a par 3.
RichA
Well-known member
Depends where you're playing.
Hitting it longer on a manicured course with short rough = good.
Hitting it longer at our course with rough where there's a 50% chance you'll never find your ball = bad. Better off being conservative from the tee and working on your short game (at my level and on my course).
I played a heathland course in Devon in September and you could launch your drives as far as you liked and be fairly confident of finding the ball.
Like most things in life, one size rarely fits all.
Hitting it longer on a manicured course with short rough = good.
Hitting it longer at our course with rough where there's a 50% chance you'll never find your ball = bad. Better off being conservative from the tee and working on your short game (at my level and on my course).
I played a heathland course in Devon in September and you could launch your drives as far as you liked and be fairly confident of finding the ball.
Like most things in life, one size rarely fits all.
Yes, but the enlightenment was that the flaw in that thinking was that you can swap diatance for accuracy, and that doing so will improve your score. You cannot simply swap distance for accuracy. The cost is higher than the gain is worth. Overall you are better off to swap accuracy for distance - you have a net gain.
D
Deleted member 25575
Guest
Since when did longer have to equal wilder? It isn’t an either or situation.
sjw
Well-known member
I think this sums it up.
A guy I played with recently plays off 4, I play off 18. While, in terms of score, he's much better than me, he is very envious of my distance (I'm probably 20 or 30 yards longer than him every club) and he thinks I've learned the game the right way around (distance first) and he wishes he'd done the same.
Top short game (and putting) is crucial when your long game is off on a particular day.
RichA
Well-known member
Since the concept of bomb and gouge golf existed; the principle that gave birth to this entire never-ending conversation.
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
The concept of bomb and gouge was only concocted because some people didn’t like the fact the old ways of thinking were being proved wrong.
Golf has long been about distance, even if some didn’t think it was.
bobmac
Major Champion
While I agree hitting the sweet spot will improve distance, the opposite is also true and the vast majority of golfers who try and swing faster will invariably miss the sweet by more. Therfor the longer you try and hit it, the less distance you get.
I can only speak from my experience and I can say for a fact when I went from a wide open links to a narrow parkland course, I reduced my swing speed, gained more control, hit more fairways and reduced my h/cap from 5 to 2.
Others may have diferent ideas I'm sure but I do wish people would stop giving me their opinions as facts.
One last time....
In my opinion, long and straight is good but it is a rare thing and the search for more length more often that not comes with a reduction of accuracy and consistency and therefore higher scores...in my opinion.
D
Deleted member 25575
Guest
Driving accuracy on the PGA in 1990 - 65.3% average distance 262.7
In 2005 62.8% for 288.6
In 2023 so far 299.9 at 59.9%
Definitely a correlation there, but hardly a dramatic difference of 5.4% less fairways hit, for the gain of 37.2 yards
In 2005 62.8% for 288.6
In 2023 so far 299.9 at 59.9%
Definitely a correlation there, but hardly a dramatic difference of 5.4% less fairways hit, for the gain of 37.2 yards
Jimaroid
Journeyman Pro
It’s a mistake to compare accuracy in 1990 with 2023. How those measurements are made has changed massively in scale and accuracy over 33 years. It’s not just the golfers that got better in that time period.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
I've been looking back at my scores in recent times to see where I've had a spell or spells of handicap cuts.
This must surely be times where I made some sort of improvements to bring this about.
Par 70, CR 70.8 and SR 132
And then a little later that year
You have to read each group of 4 from the bottom up to get the chronological order.
I am absolutely certain that, after my 60th birthday, there had been no improvement whatsoever in my driver distance or accuracy.
I had been using the same clubs for over 10 years at this point.
Yet my handicap came tumbling down.
Made seven 2s in those eight rounds that gave me some "dough". Had to hole the putts to do it.
I am absolutely convinced that my good scores were down to birdies and one-putt pars and the good condition of the course and the greens that facilitated this.
If I can reduce my HI of 4.3 next year, it won't be down to increased distance with any clubs - it ain't gonna happen.
If I can win a comp - it will be down to holing some good putts.
This must surely be times where I made some sort of improvements to bring this about.
Par 70, CR 70.8 and SR 132
And then a little later that year
You have to read each group of 4 from the bottom up to get the chronological order.
I am absolutely certain that, after my 60th birthday, there had been no improvement whatsoever in my driver distance or accuracy.
I had been using the same clubs for over 10 years at this point.
Yet my handicap came tumbling down.
Made seven 2s in those eight rounds that gave me some "dough". Had to hole the putts to do it.
I am absolutely convinced that my good scores were down to birdies and one-putt pars and the good condition of the course and the greens that facilitated this.
If I can reduce my HI of 4.3 next year, it won't be down to increased distance with any clubs - it ain't gonna happen.
If I can win a comp - it will be down to holing some good putts.
While much golf debate, discussion, is opinion, personal experience, gut feeling, or anecdote fueled, on this specific issue, it is great that true progress has been made. These conclusions on distance are facts. Not opinions.
bobmac
Major Champion
I am not giving my opinion. I dont need one. The question has been conclusively answered by others, backed up by solid research and data, and they have freely shared this insight with the rest of golf. No opinion is needed. A bit like we no longer need to debate or give our own opinion/guess, on where we would fall to if we sailed the Atlantic west and fell off the end of the world.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
If you offered me 37 more yards for 5% less fairways hit I would absolutely bite your hand off. Even for 15% less fairways tbh.
