The Future of Golf

[Slab]

Other than Tiger's tooth the other article on the BBC recently is about HSBC's Giles Morgan's 'warning' on golfs future

To be honest I don't really read it as a warning but I do think its worth a thread to discuss and we've had plenty threads on time/costs/rules/traditions that may or may not affect participation but thought I'd ask about what formats/changes we'd be happy to play to that may address some of the aforementioned 'obstacles' and secondly should it be at Pro or Amateur level or both

i.e 9 hole comps, 1 shot penalty for lost ball, mixed comps, team format comps etc etc (add your thoughts too)

I think a recognised short game format played by Pro's would help (many sports have something that's seen as a full competitive duration but not as long as the full format 20/20 cricket, 3 set tennis etc and while we typically play 18 hole comps and not 72 it just doesn't seem to capture the imagination or the requirements as a short game might

 

[Svenska]

Other than Tiger's tooth the other article on the BBC recently is about HSBC's Giles Morgan's 'warning' on golfs future

To be honest I don't really read it as a warning but I do think its worth a thread to discuss and we've had plenty threads on time/costs/rules/traditions that may or may not affect participation but thought I'd ask about what formats/changes we'd be happy to play to that may address some of the aforementioned 'obstacles' and secondly should it be at Pro or Amateur level or both

i.e 9 hole comps, 1 shot penalty for lost ball, mixed comps, team format comps etc etc (add your thoughts too)

I think a recognised short game format played by Pro's would help (many sports have something that's seen as a full competitive duration but not as long as the full format 20/20 cricket, 3 set tennis etc and while we typically play 18 hole comps and not 72 it just doesn't seem to capture the imagination or the requirements as a short game might

I've thought about this before and my problem is, because I love golf I don't really have much desire to see any big changes. Would I be interested in a 9 hole shootout? In all honesty, probably not. I do enjoy match play events as it's a battle of player/s vs player/s rather than the course which is great to see.

I've long felt the old fashioned views at some golf clubs does put youngsters off from taking the game up seriously and I was treated fairly badly by certain adult members at my club when I was growing up. It did put me off a bit, but also made me more determined to upset these old giffers in a positive way, i.e by winning adult tournaments and p1ssing them off. It's essential golf is made more appealing to the younger generation but i'm not sure different formats in the professional game would make much of a difference.

One things for sure, the competitiveness of golf does get kids hooked so giving them as much opportunity to try golf is the most important thing in the future for me. It's an expensive sport which has it's good and bad, bad being it prices a lot of golf enthusiasts out of the game especially young adults who go from junior fees to adult fees at a time when they'll have less time to play golf and other outside interests (booze and women) but good in the fact that because it's not a cheap casual sport it doesn't attract hoardes of idiots like some sports do.

All in all, just a few minor tweaks going forward and golf will prosper.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I think there is space to run short hole comps. For those courses with 2 loops of 9 use one of those, for others bodge a mini course together. My club can run an 8 or 11 hole circuit. These comps would take between 1 1/2 - 2 hrs. That must surely open golf to a lot more people. I know I would play in more competitions if they only lasted this amount of time as it would not completely take over the day.

Get clubs to try it one Saturday and see the response from members. I know my club has endless strokeplay medals so slotting this type of short round comp in but would not be a major blow to the calendar. Who knows, you may find more people want to join clubs if this is on offer.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Both Mike H (It's time for a real change) and Bill Elliot (Move Golf Forwards) sort of cover this topic in their columns in the latest GM. One point they both make is that the tours need to have more short form exciting tournaments instead of the mostly dull 4 day strokeplay ones we see week after week after week. Bill says the traditional format is fine for the majors, bit other tournaments could change things to make the game more of an exciting TV spectacle.

One stat that did shock me was that the average age of people that play golf at least once a week has gone up from 48 in 2009 to 63 now. And that is getting perilously close to it being a pensioners game like bowls mostly is. Not a bad thing per se, but not really sustainable if the game wants to be a major sport in my opinion.

 

[USER1999]

I don't think it helps that golf coverage on telly Is so poor. 4 million putts, and then an ad break. The massive gap in coverage during the swap from espn to the golf channel on Sunday night's, the p. Poor coverage of the masters, as they only allow a few hours of play to be shown, and the glacial speed of play. It's not engaging.

 

[drewster]

One stat that did shock me was that the average age of people that play golf at least once a week has gone up from 48 in 2009 to 63 now. And that is getting perilously close to it being a pensioners game like bowls mostly is. Not a bad thing per se, but not really sustainable if the game wants to be a major sport in my opinion.

I think the average age is about 65 at our place. In general though it seems that it's that age group that are still running the game and making all the decisions at club level. They're the same guys that played and paid through the period of £1500 joining fees, waiting lists and interviews/means tests to join a club and now don't want to change. Until that generation moves on i fear the administration of golf will never change but by then we will have seen a huge demise in the number of clubs.

At the pro level i'd like to see a global skills competition , based loosely on the big break , continental qualifiers leading to a world final somewhere. Make it a mix of all aspects of the game and see who comes out best !! It's great in theory but will never happen . I'm sure it would grab the public attention though .

 

[Rooter]

I don't think it helps that golf coverage on telly Is so poor. 4 million putts, and then an ad break. The massive gap in coverage during the swap from espn to the golf channel on Sunday night's, the p. Poor coverage of the masters, as they only allow a few hours of play to be shown, and the glacial speed of play. It's not engaging.

Agreed, I dont want to see Rory chatting to his caddie for 2 minutes before hitting a ball. Show more, show more players, show more misses. Every time you see a putt attempt, 90% of them drop. Watching Saturdays action from Dubai, I reckon no more than 10 players got shown more than once.

Plenty of young British lads in the top 50 they could have given a little air time too. Commentators, do some research on these lads and talk about them, They are the potential heroes of the future..

 

[Slab]

Both Mike H (It's time for a real change) and Bill Elliot (Move Golf Forwards) sort of cover this topic in their columns in the latest GM. One point they both make is that the tours need to have more short form exciting tournaments instead of the mostly dull 4 day strokeplay ones we see week after week after week. Bill says the traditional format is fine for the majors, bit other tournaments could change things to make the game more of an exciting TV spectacle.

Yeah this is kind of what I mean although I'll have to wait a while to see their columns, (I've just finished the GM Ryder Cup preview edition & looking forward to seeing how that turns out!)

But I don't think its just shake it up to make it better as a tv spectacle, it has to be exciting and fun for participants & be practical too

Think everyone agrees that despite it being 72 holes of strokeplay too often all we see on screen is a putting exercise (and this ratio of airtime to one component of the game has to change)

The seniors tour has a few 54 hole events but still basically the same thing we see on the PGA, European & Challenge tours plus countless others. That either means golf is perfect already... or lacks the desire/motivation to develop itself while still maintaining 72 hole singles format for majors and other significant events

 

[jpjeffery]

I fancy your mum Sean...

Wait, you fancy a lady called Sean?

 

[Slab]

......At the pro level i'd like to see a global skills competition , based loosely on the big break , continental qualifiers leading to a world final somewhere. Make it a mix of all aspects of the game and see who comes out best !! It's great in theory but will never happen . I'm sure it would grab the public attention though .

Yeah, was initially thinking similar (not shooting into washing machines or competing against robots ) but I do wonder how quickly I'd get bored watching 20 players play out the same bunker & I think it would fall into a tutorial or celeb pro-am format very quickly

 

[pokerjoke]

I think in the piece you mentioned Giles Morgan basically is saying if something isn't done in golf to make it more appealing soon
then HSBC and maybe other big sponsers will look to put their money into other sports.

I do like the idea of 9 hole golf however surely this is for courses that take over 4 hours to play.
At my course albeit short it only takes 3 hours and it is never packed so really slow play doesn't really
come into effect.
However this weekend I was in a 2 ball 3rd group off on the day and when we got to the 3rd hole
the 4 ball and only just teed off and could have easily let us through there and then.
They did say they would soon after which they did on the 5th.
My point is until people realise what is going on around them and how their group is effecting the course
there will always be slow play.
I have noticed over the last 3 or 4 magazines MikeH has mentioned slow play many times and I can see how it effects him,maybe Mike can see the future to and realises it is slowly killing the game.
I see Rory also has come out and said golf needs speeding up,ok that's fine but somebody has to
start the trend and start punishing players.

 

[garyinderry]

The idea if getting juniors into the game is noble yet flawed. Many of the youngsters do not have the money to enjoy the sport neither do they have a car to make it easy to get to and from the course.

Best bet is to nab the people in their twenties who are looking to hang up the nightclubs and put some golf clubs in their hands. This age group has a bit of money in their pockets, drive their own cars and looking for something that doesn't involve getting completely trashed every weekend. They want another way to punish their body and mind and golf is the perfect answer. They are getting too old to be kicked up and down a pitch every weekend.

Get them hooked before the young ones arrive. Offer lower fees up until the age of 35. Get someone playing for 10 years and you have them for life.

 

[Rooter]

The idea if getting juniors into the game is noble yet flawed. Many of the youngsters do not have the money to enjoy the sport neither do they have a car to make it easy to get to and from the course.

I disagree, I have multiple kids with multiple interests. If your child is introduced into a new activity at school, a club, a party etc etc this is where the initial seed is sewn. I think in my opinion, English Golf, the EGU whoever needs to get out to primary schools, with the backing of the local clubs also.

What will happen here is, little johnny will come home saying we played golf at school PE today and i whacked the ball so far! Oh and by the way, the local golf clubs is doing a summer school, Kids clubs, group lessons etc etc etc, can i do it??

Most parents who are not on the actual breadline, will find the money. My local club has a kids club and its 5 quid a session. 5 quid for kids activity for an hour is a steal and most parents i know would be happy to drop little johnny off at the driving range/ golf club with a fiver in hand.

Waiting until they are in their twenties is too late IMHO. Parents will do anything for their kids and if they show an interest in something, they are typically very keen to pursue it.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Wait, you fancy a lady called Sean?

For people of a certain age it is from one of the funniest adverts ever. IMHO of course.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I disagree, I have multiple kids with multiple interests. If your child is introduced into a new activity at school, a club, a party etc etc this is where the initial seed is sewn. I think in my opinion, English Golf, the EGU whoever needs to get out to primary schools, with the backing of the local clubs also.

What will happen here is, little johnny will come home saying we played golf at school PE today and i whacked the ball so far! Oh and by the way, the local golf clubs is doing a summer school, Kids clubs, group lessons etc etc etc, can i do it??

Most parents who are not on the actual breadline, will find the money. My local club has a kids club and its 5 quid a session. 5 quid for kids activity for an hour is a steal and most parents i know would be happy to drop little johnny off at the driving range/ golf club with a fiver in hand.

Waiting until they are in their twenties is too late IMHO. Parents will do anything for their kids and if they show an interest in something, they are typically very keen to pursue it.

I totally agree with that. Down my local course (the one that does footgolf) they have some great sessions for youngsters and I was on the range whilst one was going on last Saturday morning. The instructor was making it fun and it seemed to be very well attended. At one stage the instructor apologized to me as the kids were making quite a racket, but to be honest it did not bother me one bit. It's not the silver bullet but more of this kind of thing will only help.

 

[Hacker Khan]

The idea if getting juniors into the game is noble yet flawed. Many of the youngsters do not have the money to enjoy the sport neither do they have a car to make it easy to get to and from the course.

Best bet is to nab the people in their twenties who are looking to hang up the nightclubs and put some golf clubs in their hands. This age group has a bit of money in their pockets, drive their own cars and looking for something that doesn't involve getting completely trashed every weekend. They want another way to punish their body and mind and golf is the perfect answer. They are getting too old to be kicked up and down a pitch every weekend.

Get them hooked before the young ones arrive. Offer lower fees up until the age of 35. Get someone playing for 10 years and you have them for life.

I wish people would make their minds up, one minute it is a cheap sport to get into as you can pick up second hand clubs for tuppence ha penny, next it is too expensive for youngsters to enjoy.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I think in the piece you mentioned Giles Morgan basically is saying if something isn't done in golf to make it more appealing soon
then HSBC and maybe other big sponsers will look to put their money into other sports.

I do like the idea of 9 hole golf however surely this is for courses that take over 4 hours to play.
At my course albeit short it only takes 3 hours and it is never packed so really slow play doesn't really
come into effect.
However this weekend I was in a 2 ball 3rd group off on the day and when we got to the 3rd hole
the 4 ball and only just teed off and could have easily let us through there and then.
They did say they would soon after which they did on the 5th.
My point is until people realise what is going on around them and how their group is effecting the course
there will always be slow play.
I have noticed over the last 3 or 4 magazines MikeH has mentioned slow play many times and I can see how it effects him,maybe Mike can see the future to and realises it is slowly killing the game.
I see Rory also has come out and said golf needs speeding up,ok that's fine but somebody has to
start the trend and start punishing players.

In todays world money talks, and once the blue chip sponsors start pulling out then things will have to change. Or alternatively they will start getting sponsored by cigarette companies, betting companies and dodgy Russian oil companies.

 

[Rooter]

I wish people would make their minds up, one minute it is a cheap sport to get into as you can pick up second hand clubs for tuppence ha penny, next it is too expensive for youngsters to enjoy.

As a parent of a 7yr old and a 5yr old who play a little (at this stage, just with me at the driving range) Children do not need a full set of clubs, clothes, bags etc. A kids 7 iron brand new from American golf or similar are circa 20 quid. They only need one club to get them into it! I would also suggest a putter, as putting the ball in the hole is as fun as whacking it for my lad.

So 20-40 quid set up costs, and 5 quid a lesson. Thats a hell of a lot cheaper than my 7yr old daughters stage school she goes to! And probably about the same (if not less) than any other sporting activity for kids (football, Ballet, rugby etc etc)

 

[garyinderry]

My idea is isn't mutually exclusive. We can still try and attract youngsters to the sport.

When was the last time you heard of a group of 20 odd 11years phoning up Formby trying to hand over £70 a pop. It just doesn't happen.

 

[Rooter]

My idea is isn't mutually exclusive. We can still try and attract youngsters to the sport.

When was the last time you heard of a group of 20 odd 11years phoning up Formby trying to hand over £70 a pop. It just doesn't happen.

No but in twenty years time, the 50 year old boys who are doing that today will be 70 and not doing it, the 5 year olds that have been playing now for 20 years will be! if they are not, Formby is bulldozed and houses built on it.

Agree that the late teens and early twenties also need targeting, however they are not going to be the "saviors" of the sport, the kids at primary school today are. But we do need that age range to keep the industry ticking along..