Pin-seeker
Well-known member
It’s the same with Soccer Saturday & sky sports news.
More important to tick boxes.
Bring back Georgie Thompson & Natalie Sawyer
More important to tick boxes.
Bring back Georgie Thompson & Natalie Sawyer
Red devil
Well-known member
Bring back Archie McphersonIt’s the same with Soccer Saturday & sky sports news.
More important to tick boxes.
Bring back Georgie Thompson & Natalie Sawyer
Red devil
Well-known member
RIP Tony Parkes, Blackburn legend. Another victim of the, all too prevalent in retired footballers, Alzheimer's
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4LEX
Well-known member
Arsenal had the most attacking team from 97-05 and had at least one inverted winger. Overmars was a right footed left winger and the best example. When he left much of Arsenal's success was having Henry as a wide forward playing off the left who was right footed. Look at Henry's goals, so many are cutting in from the left, opening his body and slotting into the far corner with his right.
Steve McManaman was doing the same years before too, although he had a better 'weaker' foot. Robben was just another one that did the same, the difference was he was extemely selfish and it showed up more.
Olise is an inverted winger/forward now, same as Diaz, same as Yamal, same as Kvaratskhelia, same as Salah, same as Vinicius Jr, same as Ronaldo, same as Neymar, same as MESSI! The greatest attacking players of the last 20 years have all been inverted wingers or forwards.
The only two elite wingers that play on the 'normal' side are Saka and Doue and they're both boring and predictable.
Mourinho also had two sides at Chelsea, the first had very attacking full backs in Cole and Ferreira. It was another manager that bought in Ivanovic. He still got forward a lot and managed over 20 PL goals at a similar rate to Trent Alexander Arnold. You don't get that by sitting back!
I do love proper wingers hitting the line and whipping in crosses but the data men took over and decided that doesn't create the better chances. Football has moved on.
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4LEX
Well-known member
Went to a summer goalkeeping school with him back in the late 90's, despite not being a keeper. I think my parents just wanted me out of the way for a while
Learnt an awful lot and sorry to hear he's passed away 
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I'm not accepting Overmars, as I recall he was extremely two-footed and played pretty much as an orthodox winger, slinging plenty of crosses in with his left foot. Henry played in a front two as well, not often from left wing for Arsenal. Maybe you can have McManaman but I'm sure he only played left side in a 4-4-2 because their other winger was right-footed as well and he had the better left peg of the two of them.
I still say it was Mourinho who changed the game tactically in England and brought in that front 3 system with inverted wingers who cut in at every opportunity.
The orthodox winger has all but died out. The last ones we had at Spurs were Aaron Lennon and arguably Lucas Moura, albeit Moura could play anywhere in the attack really.
Neilds
Assistant Pro
All teams play the same with tippy tappy forwards, therefore all teams set up the same defensive system to counteract this. If a team had proper wingers who went round the outside, got to the bye line and got a cross in, I would put money on them scoring more goals.
Lucifer MorningStar
Well-known member
Hmm your theory is right BUT….. if you want to know the first manager to introduce 4-3-3 with inverted forwards rather than wingers. It was actually Sir Alf Ramsey in 1966 with our World Cup winning side. England’s team in 66 was even dubbed the Wingless wonders. Though at that time they called them “Narrow Forwards” and he had Martin Peters and Alan Ball operating in those roles to allow Charlton To roam free.I'm not accepting Overmars, as I recall he was extremely two-footed and played pretty much as an orthodox winger, slinging plenty of crosses in with his left foot. Henry played in a front two as well, not often from left wing for Arsenal. Maybe you can have McManaman but I'm sure he only played left side in a 4-4-2 because their other winger was right-footed as well and he had the better left peg of the two of them.
I still say it was Mourinho who changed the game tactically in England and brought in that front 3 system with inverted wingers who cut in at every opportunity.
The orthodox winger has all but died out. The last ones we had at Spurs were Aaron Lennon and arguably Lucas Moura, albeit Moura could play anywhere in the attack really.
So it really isn’t a modern concept , like all things it’s cyclical and just repeats over time but someone comes along and just renames things like Narrow Forwards now being inverted wingers. Or claiming Makelele invented the CDM holding role, the likes of Nobby Styles in the 60s, Rijkaard 80’s and Dunga for Brazil won a World Cup is 2002 all played that role before him but it wasn’t labelled as such.
Lucifer MorningStar
Well-known member
Ironic isn’t it teams like Utd sign Hjorlund, Arsenal Gyokores etc, they get labelled flops and it good enough for the Prem, yet they’re proper centre forwards if you actually crossed a ball into them they’d get on the end of it. But instead everyone wants to play inverted and fill the middle of the pitch! Football really has got boring!
4LEX
Well-known member
I'm not accepting Overmars, as I recall he was extremely two-footed and played pretty much as an orthodox winger, slinging plenty of crosses in with his left foot. Henry played in a front two as well, not often from left wing for Arsenal. Maybe you can have McManaman but I'm sure he only played left side in a 4-4-2 because their other winger was right-footed as well and he had the better left peg of the two of them.
I still say it was Mourinho who changed the game tactically in England and brought in that front 3 system with inverted wingers who cut in at every opportunity.
The orthodox winger has all but died out. The last ones we had at Spurs were Aaron Lennon and arguably Lucas Moura, albeit Moura could play anywhere in the attack really.
Overmars was 100% inverted but he did have a good weak foot.
Henry played as a lone foward with a free role but played mainly from the left. I know this as I went to a lot of Arseal games from 99-03 as my best mate and his family had season tickets in the North Bank. Arsenal were something else over those years and should've won a lot more than they did. By far the best football I've ever seen live.
Mourinho played more of a 4231, which most top sides play these days.
Lucifer MorningStar
Well-known member
The issue here is people often get crossed wires of Arsenal with Overmars in the team and Henry years. They only played 1 season together and Henry was at CF and Overmars LW.
After that Overmars went to Barca, Pires came in and played that left side and he was very much a right footed player and an inverted winger. He was superb and would often drift in to the centre of the pitch which then allowed Henry to move out left and pick the ball up to score those amazing goals. Arsenal also never played with 2 traditional Strikers, Bergkamp was a magician in the No 10 role and would just roam everywhere as he was so dangerous on and off the ball. That was what gave Pires room to come inside and that in turn gave Henry freedom to move out left.
They were truly one of the best Premier league footballing sides I’ve ever seen.
Red devil
Well-known member
What I want to see is a winger who roasts a defender then whips in a cross with such pace and accuracy that all the centre forward has to do is stick his head on it and it bursts the net. Love it
4LEX
Well-known member
Very true, Overmars wasn't there long. Pires was at the same level but had no pace and used to drift in centrally.
I always say the best match I'ver seen was Arsenal 2-2 Bayern in 2000. Both teams were playing one touch attacking football. It could've ended 6-6 but it was obvious one of them would win the Champions League that season.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Fair play, I forgot about Pires, I'll give you that one.
nickjdavis
Head Pro
You want David Ginola and Les Ferdinand then.
