The Footie Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 15344
  • Start date Start date
Everyone here spouting how “it works in Rugby” wonderful great for Rugby. Football isn’t Rugby (thankfully God awful sport).

Just because something works in other sport doesn’t mean it will in Football. Officiating is done differently players in Rugby were brought up from day one to respect the official, we can’t even get games at Under 9s level to respect referees and half that issue is the people on the sidelines. If anyone thinks that would then work in Stadiums filled with 30k+ fans shouting abuse is gonna work is living in dream land 😂

People on a golf forum can’t even come to a agreement on it good luck implementing it successfully in football despite what goes on in Rugby 🙄
 
I don't mind the idea of looking at other sports and seeing if it can be used to improve football. After all, the situation is a million miles from being perfect, so some changes could end up improving things

I think it would be better if we could find a way to humanise referees, somehow. Not by speaking after games to justify decisions, but by hearing them more often, on the field perhaps. I think too many simply think of them as an object that is pure incompetence, and thus ready to hammer them at any opportunity.

If we did hear them in pitch, it would be nowhere near rugby. It is ingrained in too many fans, players and managers to question them and blame them for every failing. But, it could at least help get the ball rolling, and maybe things could slowly change. Might take years and years as generations change. But, I do think if we can hear them, players will quickly adjust their behaviour. They would be humiliated if they were heard screaming and crying. Sponsors and teams would hate it. And if players start treating referee with more respect because it makes themselves come across as much nicer, decent human beings, then kids may at least start seeing that as "normal".

So, I would definitely be up for a change along these lines, if it was on the table.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zig
IanM said:
Correct. So start enforcement with kids and their ignorant parents shouting abuse on the touchline.
Click to expand...
Yeah because that works 🙄

That ship sailed long ago and is held the reason kids games can barely get refs and even worse in Sunday league.

Such a simplistic view I’m afraid, that horse has bolted society is the issue a you won’t change it at grass roots as this same people are the fans referees should be protected from. The safety of a golf
Forum makes for good ideas , the lack of protection in the real world has made these people a target for the masses.

On that I’m out ☺️
 
Zig said:
It works perfectly well in the 'chaotic' world of rugby union across the globe. FIFA Decision and they control World Football, the PL can’t ignore their rules without agreement.

The referees in rugby union are infinitely better than their football counterparts. And don't have the same credibility concerns. I disagree, you get good and bad in all Sports, watch the 6 Nations, Referee’s will often be criticised, France v England a few weeks back, the Ref was questioned by pundits etc

Foul and abusive language is already against the rules. Tell your players to behave better. It is if directed at the Ref, but not if spoken between team mates and picked up on a mic.

Explanations should be kept to a minimum - maybe only to the players? (But the crowd would be able to hear). Think more RFU, less NFL. Yet people on hear want to hear full explanations so than understand why decisions are made, the Officials already explain it to players, managers etc,

Again, doesn't seem to be a problem in places like Twickenham, Stade Francais etc...Because Rugby has natural pauses and the crowd goes silent, look at the crowd behaviour for conversions, you can hear a pin drop.


This makes me feel more it's the culture amongst the football decision makers which is the problem. It is culture your spot on, but it is decades of cultural issues and the money involved in Football compared to Rugby is huge. You also need to look at the issues Rugby faces at grassroot level, it really isn’t the role model some like to portray.
Click to expand...

They aren’t my reasons, they are the ones quoted by the powers that be.

My thoughts on your answers above.

We hear this Rugby line being the example raising its head every so often, I’m sure all Sports could learn something from each other, but in the main it’s Apples & Oranges, some of the issues in Football could take a generation or more to get to a point we’d be content with.
 
For those who think Rugby Union has a lot of the answers:

Rugby Union referees face significant challenges, primarily driven by intense scrutiny, in-game inconsistencies, and high levels of abuse
. Key issues include inconsistent officiating on laws like the tackle and breakdown, high-profile errors, over-reliance on the Television Match Official (TMO), and a lack of transparency in accountability, alongside alarming rates of abuse causing retention issues.

Key Problems with Rugby Union Referees:
  • Lack of Consistency: A major issue is the lack of consistency in how laws are applied between different referees and matches, leading to a "clarity problem" for players and coaches.
  • Abuse and Recruitment Issues: Nearly 50% of match officials report being subjected to abuse, causing a retention crisis at all levels of the game. High-profile referees, including Wayne Barnes and Tom Foley, have stepped away due to the "torrent of abuse" and threats.
  • Accountability and Transparency: There is significant frustration regarding a lack of transparency around referee reviews and a perception that there are few repercussions for decisions that significantly impact game outcomes.
  • TMO Over-use and Interruptions: The TMO process is often seen as slow and excessive, with reviews of minor incidents slowing down the game and sometimes leading to "farcical" or contentious decisions.
  • Pressure to Influence Game Flow: Referees have reported feeling pressured to manipulate game outcomes or style, such as managing the amount of "ball in play," rather than just penalizing infringements.
  • Communication Gaps: Poor communication regarding the implementation of new laws, specifically around tackle height, has caused confusion between officials, teams, and fans.
The Rugby Football Union (RFU) has introduced stricter, "aggravated sanctions" for players and coaches who abuse referees to combat the increasing hostility.
 
IanM said:
No one said Rugby was perfect, but it certainly isn't the Wild West. 🤣



That's no reason for the "do nothing" option.
Click to expand...
But you only have to look at the posts, posters talking about Twickenham and the Stade de France etc or Nigel Owens.

They are comparing International Rugby and possibly the best Referee in the World against a National League.

Nobody has said we have the best Referee’s in the world in the PL, but comparing National teams against Club sides is just as imbalanced.
 
I’m Spartacus!

Yes, I’ve compared the behaviour between rugby referees and football referees, and also some of the mechanisms in place at elite level in rugby. It’s a subject that’s come up a number of times.

First, the use of the TMO & time keeping in rugby, and could football learn something from that? VAR gets a lot right but mistakes are made. For me, mistakes will happen but it’s the time taken to make the decisions that’s killing the flow. It takes seconds to review a piece of footage. If something isn’t obvious, STOP looking for it. “The decision stays with the on field referee.” Move on.

Second, respect for the officials in rugby, and can some of the ethos towards officials be brought into football? At grassroots level rugby has very similar issues to those seen in football. Some of us, myself included, thought respect was still there at grassroots level. There’s still some but there’s a lot of aggravation between players, spectators & the referee. The RFU have acknowledged it, and are working to address it.

Third, a timekeeper, why not? I haven’t heard of one good reason why not.

Best practice; there may well be different aspects in other sports that could be looked at and trialed in football, including sin-bins and referrals. For those that have flat out said nothing could be transferred to football, bluntly, you’re Luddites. Every problem has a solution, but what it doesn’t have is the will to put them right.
 
Football, and the powers that be are too arrogant to think they can learn from other sports. Some things, such as behaviour and respect for officials, can be improved by looking at other sports. Even at very junior level, the kids playing football are no different from those playing rugby - some might even play both sports. The difference is how the behaviour is tolerated by parents, coaches and officials. Stamping out this sort of behaviour needs to be tackled from both ends of the game. Kids need to be told it is not acceptable and professionals need to be punished so the kids can see it is not acceptable. Might be a long process, with some games being abandoned as they won't have enough players on the pitch but this is no reason to just continually ignore the problem. It will not improve or go away unless some difficult action is taken.
 
Back to my original post... and sorry if comparing footy with rugby offended anyone. (Disclaimer: I've played footy for over 20 years, never once played rugby. Have only been to about a dozen rugby matches, compared to thousands of footy ones).

The original point was about VAR. VAR works in other sports (think I also mentioned cricket too). VAR can work in football. It's the implementation which has let it down. No agreed language/questions/simplification for the officials. Instead, it's too informal and unstructured - the Diaz goal vs Spurs was my example, when it was a technician voiced what officials missed!). I'd love VAR to work better, and it can, just not with Webb/PGMOL or without a major reset.

The refs watching on the scoreboards, talking through just the key points, means in rugby the crowd and the players know what's going on. In footy, if II'm in the ground, I have no idea (unless a mate is watching on telly and phones me to keep me in the loop!).

I suggested treating players on the pitch. Players have ruined something designed to support their welfare. Instead, we have players feigning head contact, GK going down to break up the game, players rolling back onto the pitch etc etc. So - unless the injury is between the penalty spot and two goalposts, treat them on the pitch while the game goes on around them.

I just thought these things would make the game I love better. And I don't mind learning from others (sports) if that's what it takes.
 
Zig said:
Back to my original post... and sorry if comparing footy with rugby offended anyone. (Disclaimer: I've played footy for over 20 years, never once played rugby. Have only been to about a dozen rugby matches, compared to thousands of footy ones).

The original point was about VAR. VAR works in other sports (think I also mentioned cricket too). VAR can work in football. It's the implementation which has let it down. No agreed language/questions/simplification for the officials. Instead, it's too informal and unstructured - the Diaz goal vs Spurs was my example, when it was a technician voiced what officials missed!). I'd love VAR to work better, and it can, just not with Webb/PGMOL or without a major reset.

The refs watching on the scoreboards, talking through just the key points, means in rugby the crowd and the players know what's going on. In footy, if II'm in the ground, I have no idea (unless a mate is watching on telly and phones me to keep me in the loop!).

I suggested treating players on the pitch. Players have ruined something designed to support their welfare. Instead, we have players feigning head contact, GK going down to break up the game, players rolling back onto the pitch etc etc. So - unless the injury is between the penalty spot and two goalposts, treat them on the pitch while the game goes on around them.

I just thought these things would make the game I love better. And I don't mind learning from others (sports) if that's what it takes.
Click to expand...
I think a big issue is how the system is "improved".

The introduction of VAR, was completely new, so they created a system they thought would work. Fair enough, need to start sonewhere.

However, as the flaws are seen as time goes on, they only ever seem to look to make minor adjustments, to try ad solve the problem. It is like applying sticking plasters to a major trauma.

At some point, I think they really need to be bold enough to make major changes more often. Although, I'm not sure the blame can be pointed at Webb and PGMOL. I'm not sure how the decision making is made. However, I think they can only do so much, as they are dictated in a lot of things by the international body. And no doubt the Premier League and the FA have their opinions as well.
 
Nobody on here has stated Football can’t learn from other sports, of course they can, biggest example being goal line technology.

The issue for me is that the problems being discussed are always against the Premier League, but yet VAR isn’t used outside of it and huge problems still exist at all levels.

Rugby has one of the highest problems with drug use at lower levels, not saying Football is totally clean, but testing is a lot better.

The red herring in all this is behaviour on the pitch, I don’t think that is the reason for bad behaviour by kids, to me it is a societal issue, taking for example this weekend’s Tyne Wear Derby, the Police have said it passed largely without incident, yet videos have emerged with the Sunderland Team coach being attacked with bottles on arrival at St James’s Park and fans attacking each other.

It’s not kids or players in these videos, it’s adults.

The money in Football at the top level is obscene and Parents are desperate to see their “kid” make it. Totally agree the standards need to be drilled in at grassroots level, but that would still take 30-40 years before we’d see any benefits and it’s not just an English issue, it needs to be led by F.I.F.A.
 
One of the big differences with football and other sports is the speed the game is played.

With Tennis there is a natural break between points as there is in cricket between balls being bowled.

Football can learn from how other sports use technology but need to tweak it for the sport.

Something I feel they have got wrong with VAR.
 
Zig said:
Back to my original post... and sorry if comparing footy with rugby offended anyone. (Disclaimer: I've played footy for over 20 years, never once played rugby. Have only been to about a dozen rugby matches, compared to thousands of footy ones).

The original point was about VAR. VAR works in other sports (think I also mentioned cricket too). VAR can work in football. It's the implementation which has let it down. No agreed language/questions/simplification for the officials. Instead, it's too informal and unstructured - the Diaz goal vs Spurs was my example, when it was a technician voiced what officials missed!). I'd love VAR to work better, and it can, just not with Webb/PGMOL or without a major reset.

The refs watching on the scoreboards, talking through just the key points, means in rugby the crowd and the players know what's going on. In footy, if II'm in the ground, I have no idea (unless a mate is watching on telly and phones me to keep me in the loop!).

I suggested treating players on the pitch. Players have ruined something designed to support their welfare. Instead, we have players feigning head contact, GK going down to break up the game, players rolling back onto the pitch etc etc. So - unless the injury is between the penalty spot and two goalposts, treat them on the pitch while the game goes on around them.

I just thought these things would make the game I love better. And I don't mind learning from others (sports) if that's what it takes.
Click to expand...
Re the bit in bold:
This sort of could work in certain circumstances, but it would need a massive change to the laws, ie, Offside, the player (a defender) could be down injured by a corner flag, is he deemed as being “active” at what point are they deemed “inactive”

A ball being played from left to right or over the top, you’d be basically asking an attacking team to limit their options to keep away from the player and first aid staff.

Who then determines it’s a serious injury and the game needs to be stopped?

Goalkeepers? They’d have to be an exception to the rule?

Not that it’s a bad idea, I just think it would be too big of a problem for the “powers that be” to change it.
 
Hobbit said:
I’m Spartacus!

Yes, I’ve compared the behaviour between rugby referees and football referees, and also some of the mechanisms in place at elite level in rugby. It’s a subject that’s come up a number of times.

First, the use of the TMO & time keeping in rugby, and could football learn something from that? VAR gets a lot right but mistakes are made. For me, mistakes will happen but it’s the time taken to make the decisions that’s killing the flow. It takes seconds to review a piece of footage. If something isn’t obvious, STOP looking for it. “The decision stays with the on field referee.” Move on.

Second, respect for the officials in rugby, and can some of the ethos towards officials be brought into football? At grassroots level rugby has very similar issues to those seen in football. Some of us, myself included, thought respect was still there at grassroots level. There’s still some but there’s a lot of aggravation between players, spectators & the referee. The RFU have acknowledged it, and are working to address it.

Third, a timekeeper, why not? I haven’t heard of one good reason why not.

Best practice; there may well be different aspects in other sports that could be looked at and trialed in football, including sin-bins and referrals. For those that have flat out said nothing could be transferred to football, bluntly, you’re Luddites. Every problem has a solution, but what it doesn’t have is the will to put them right.
Click to expand...

That’s a no brainer. Something everyone can see and understand what’s happening, to timekeep as in Rugby League.
At present you have an indication that “5 mins added time” and then the clock gets there and the game still goes on. Guessing game from then on as to when the ref is going to blow.
Ludicrous! Leads to all sorts of speculations.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Hobbit
Another footie thread
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
WorldHandicapSystem
W
road2ruin
Fantasy Footie 25/26
3 4 5
Replies
88
Views
5K
4LEX
4LEX
C
Weather apps
2
Replies
26
Views
1K
Lord Tyrion
Lord Tyrion
SwingsitlikeHogan
Rental Rights Act
2
Replies
24
Views
2K
jim8flog
jim8flog
jim8flog
Golf or football
2
Replies
33
Views
7K
Voyager EMH
Voyager EMH
Top