The Footie Thread

[irip]

It’s tough because the player has been subjected to abuse in Spain and rival fans have actually been sent to prison for it

It’s still a big issue in Spain and the player seems to have been targeted more than most

He was wrong with his celebration etc but won’t ever excuse any racist abuse he has had

Last night watching it you can see the players were all going at each other and then suddenly Vinicius reacts to something being said and it was an instant reaction so the player has clearly said something derogatory at least

I think uefa can still find him guilty even if others can’t or didn’t hear it - have to ask why he pulled his shirt up

I don’t doubt that something has been said that shouldn’t have been.
The big problem is proving it.
In my opinion if it can’t be proven then you can’t find him guilty.

 

[clubchamp98]

On the balance of probability, I believe the Argentine did indeed say something pretty disgusting. He wasn't covering his mouth because he didn't want to give away anything tactically. It was a very deliberate action, and Mbappe came out and said he heard it, and explained what it was he said.

I appreciate Junior isn't everyone's cup of tea. I don't particularly like the guy, albeit I'm aware much of my knowledge is third hand as I don't watch La Liga. I'm just aware of things like him not attending Balon D'Or ceremony, and he comes across as a bit of a sulk.

That being said, I've no doubt he probably deals with a huge amount of racism, given he is one of the best players in the world at one of the most high profile clubs in the world. Culturaly I'm not sure what it is like in Spain, but I'm sure he also gets a lot of it when travelling around Europe every season. Was it a good idea to celebrate like he did? No. Then again, we see it so often. Players get abuse all game, and give it back a bit when they score. Often it is a bit of a slap on the wrist, but also people understand why they do it. Maddison or Vardy do it, they are simply cheeky chappies.

I personally believe that there could and maybe should be a rule that if a player covers their mouth to say something nasty to an opponent, then that should be a mark against them if it is alleged they said something unacceptable and deemed racist. A bit like a footballer missing a drugs test. Doesn't mean they took drugs, but you get punished all the same.

P.S. If you are saying that players cover their mouth due to a "lip-reading thing", then they must clearly have something to hide. Otherwise they would not worry about being lip read in the first place??

Think it was started years ago .
Teams employed a lip reader to hear what subs and coaches were planning ,coming on so they knew their tactical changes.

But seems the norm now.

 

[Swango1980]

I’m a big fan of innocent until proven guilty.
Just swing it round and let’s say the Benfica player didn’t use a racist comment and the authorities found him guilty.
He now has that tag around his neck for the rest of his career/life for something he didn’t do.
If he is guilty though and it can be proven he should never be allowed to enter a football pitch again in any capacity.

I very much agree with this in general. I certainly agree a criminal prosecution should and would be impossible without hard evidence. And whether he is found guilty or not within football, he will probably have that label over his head now simply due to the high profile allegation. In all honesty, even if he was found guilty with hard evidence, I don't think I'd be a fan of him being thrown out forever. He is a 20 yr old kid from Argentina, I have no idea what his life has been like or what his culture is like. I'd say he should be punished hard, educated, and if he becomes a repeat offender, then consider banning him for life.

The biggest concern in this case is that if the case can simply be dismissed because no audio picked it up, and lip readers cannot clarify what he said, then it means it is a loophole that could be used again. All any player needs to do before uttering words of abuse that is considered unaccaptable is ensure the victim is the only person in earshot, and then cover their mouth. I suppose for me it hits harder when I hear Richards, and in particular Henry, discuss the incident in detail. You know they are not trying to be sensationalist, they are just simply exhausted that such things still go, and they almost feel resigned to the fact that nothing can be done unless the culprit admits it, his team mates dob him in or it is picked up on a microphone.

 

[irip]

I very much agree with this in general. I certainly agree a criminal prosecution should and would be impossible without hard evidence. And whether he is found guilty or not within football, he will probably have that label over his head now simply due to the high profile allegation. In all honesty, even if he was found guilty with hard evidence, I don't think I'd be a fan of him being thrown out forever. He is a 20 yr old kid from Argentina, I have no idea what his life has been like or what his culture is like. I'd say he should be punished hard, educated, and if he becomes a repeat offender, then consider banning him for life.

The biggest concern in this case is that if the case can simply be dismissed because no audio picked it up, and lip readers cannot clarify what he said, then it means it is a loophole that could be used again. All any player needs to do before uttering words of abuse that is considered unaccaptable is ensure the victim is the only person in earshot, and then cover their mouth. I suppose for me it hits harder when I hear Richards, and in particular Henry, discuss the incident in detail. You know they are not trying to be sensationalist, they are just simply exhausted that such things still go, and they almost feel resigned to the fact that nothing can be done unless the culprit admits it, his team mates dob him in or it is picked up on a microphone.

I do wonder with the money in the sport now could they use some of that so the microphones around the pitch can hear more what players are saying?
I honestly don’t know and it may not be possible but in a sport with the money they have it seems mad we are discussing something as outdated as Racism.

 

[Swango1980]

I do wonder with the money in the sport now could they use some of that so the microphones around the pitch can hear more what players are saying?
I honestly don’t know and it may not be possible but in a sport with the money they have it seems mad we are discussing something as outdated as Racism.

Perhaps they could do that at some grounds, no idea. Well, you could demand that all players wear a microphone, like they wear a training monitor vest. However, it would be so sad to resort to that. Big Brother is watching everyone simply to ensure we catch all racist or comments of discrimination.

It would be an interesting idea though. I suppose we can hear most of the things F1 drivers say during the race. You could sell the idea that it is more content for fans, so we can hear how players express their joy when goals are scored, or discuss ideas with team mates, or call for the ball in play.

 

[Swango1980]

Another point about the Real Madrid last night, that got missed in the noise a little. We could see things being thrown on the pitch. Right at the very end, a filled up bottle hit Junior on the back. Him and TAA were moving away from the danger zone. TAA was showing the ref the sorts of objects that were being hurled at them. However, it appeared the ref was just telling them to hurry up and get on with it, perhaps because the match was very nearly over?

I thought that looked a bit horrendous. I thought the ref also had a responsibility to look out for the welfare of the players. It was obvious many things were being thrown on the pitch. Even if there was only one second left after the throw in was taken, surely the ref should have paused the game and made sure the players did not have to stand by the crowd when that was happening!? I genuinely thought one of them was going to get hit by something heavy, and if they had got seriously hurt, how would the ref justify telling the players just to play on!?

 

[4LEX]

Great interview from one of footbal's sharpest minds. Not that there's a great deal of competition. Top man and does a lot of work for charity, grassroots football and still gets to the odd Reading away game to support us from the stands, rather than sit in a box.