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The Footie Thread

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Bdill93 said:
So much pressure on that kids shoulders at the moment.

Maybe too much for his age!
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Exactly - comparisons to Messi whilst only natural are silly , let him grow as a player without expectations being lumped on him

Suspect in Spain etc they won’t be putting too much pressure on him

Maybe that’s why so many young players in England or the Prem bomb - too much expectations and scrutiny
 
Bunkermagnet said:
He is a good squad player, but as you say his big injury has really derailed him. Considering Salah has resigned and Wirtz is very much on the horizon I doubt he would get a regular starting place.
I like him a lot, but even when a very promising youngster they have to keep improving and making themselves undropable, and sadly he hasn’t.
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I think there were a few times during last season where I wanted to see him come in and given a chance towards the end of games where we needed something - especially when Szobozlai had a period where he was struggling for form
 
Arthur Wedge said:
Exactly - comparisons to Messi whilst only natural are silly , let him grow as a player without expectations being lumped on him

Suspect in Spain etc they won’t be putting too much pressure on him

Maybe that’s why so many young players in England or the Prem bomb - too much expectations and scrutiny
Click to expand...
Do you think the English media are any different to the media elsewhere?

The Spanish manager, in March, asked the media to tone down their criticism of Yamal as he believed they wanted to "kill him"

I bet there are a lot of youngsters in Spain, France, Italy, etc. that bomb as well
 
Arthur Wedge said:
😂

Yeah Fulham fans didn’t like him leaving their club at 16 to go to a bigger club
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I believe he ran his (Youth) contract down and didn't sign a senior contract, which meant that Fulham only received a small tribunal-determined fee instead of typical compensation including replacement and development fees.

Hmmmmmmmm. A player running down a contract then leaving for a bigger club. That sounds incredibly familiar doesn't it?!? Wonder if there was hysterical fan meltdown, burning effagies and threatening signs about Harvey Elliot around Fulham at the time, like there have been elsewhere in other familiar cases? 🤔 🤔 🤔
 
Don Barzini said:
I believe he ran his (Youth) contract down and didn't sign a senior contract, which meant that Fulham only received a small tribunal-determined fee instead of tyipcal compensation including replacement and development fees.

Hmmmmmmmm. A player running down a contract then leaving for a bigger club. That sounds incredibly familiar doesn't it?!? Wonder if there were burning effagies and threatening signs about Harvey Elliot around Fulham at the time, like there have been elsewhere in other familiar cases? 🤔 🤔 🤔
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Think it was around £4mil in the end - not sure what fee would have been with a senior contract

Not sure what other cases have been similar but youth contracts etc been a “issue” for years

Yes Trent left on a free , thoughts have been clear on that for everyone

I don’t expect any single fan to be happy losing a top class player for nothing
 
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Swango1980 said:
Do you think the English media are any different to the media elsewhere?

The Spanish manager, in March, asked the media to tone down their criticism of Yamal as he believed they wanted to "kill him"

I bet there are a lot of youngsters in Spain, France, Italy, etc. that bomb as well
Click to expand...

My thoughts on the English “media” - very clear , there are multiple outlets that should be out of business

But it’s not just the media

It’s also silly comparisons to past players

And yes youngsters will bomb in other countries

But imo they have a better chance in places like Spain

But you compared him to Messi and judged him on a friendly last night - as opposed to last summer when he was outstanding or at times during the CL - even Messi himself had bad games for his country - took him 16 years to win a major tournament with Argentina
 
I met my Liverpool relatives this weekend and was chatting about various players. My cousin is a season ticket holder, follows them all over, the others watch them every game on a dodgy stick. Their view on Elliot and Curtis Jones is that neither are good enough to start and are squad players, no more. Elliot lacks that little bit of pace to take him away from people and whilst he can do good stuff, he isn't enough for them. Jones they just don't see enough from him.

They'd be happy for both to stay as cover but no more than that. At their age, they probably need to move on to a middle level club to get more games.

One other thing, my cousin was one of the bus drivers at the new stadium test event. Half full stadium, it was an absolute mess coming out and he doesn't see how that will change. The best way, in his opinion, is to be to walk to and from the city centre, forget transport. It isn't that close but it's the best of a bad lot.
 
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Lord Tyrion said:
I met my Liverpool relatives this weekend and was chatting about various players. My cousin is a season ticket holder, follows them all over, the others watch them every game on a dodgy stick. Their view on Elliot and Curtis Jones is that neither are good enough to start and are squad players, no more. Elliot lacks that little bit of pace to take him away from people and whilst he can do good stuff, he isn't enough for them. Jones they just don't see enough from him.

They'd be happy for both to stay as cover but no more than that. At their age, they probably need to move on to a middle level club to get more games.
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Jones is an interesting one

He seems to be the new - Lucas or Kuyt etc players who are solid squad players and will come in , do a role for the manager , a lot of ugly unseen work

Jones was in the team during a lot of the big games last season and popped up with some very good performances - started 22 games in the prem ( 30 overall ) and was brought on in most of the others

Sometimes I think people expect more from a local lad or young lad , Jones at times in the past just held onto the ball too much but he is developing into a solid midfielder for us and he is also adaptable to play across a number of different roles ( filling the role Milner played )

Slot seems to rate him and don’t expect he will be going anywhere and will get plenty of games next season for us
 
@Arthur Wedge I don't watch Liverpool much so I can't judge. They don't say that Jones is a bad player, they just don't see him as a starter when everyone is fit. Saying that, everyone doesn't stay fit and that's when you need your squad. How long does he and Elliot accept being squad players?
 
Lord Tyrion said:
@Arthur Wedge I don't watch Liverpool much so I can't judge. They don't say that Jones is a bad player, they just don't see him as a starter when everyone is fit. Saying that, everyone doesn't stay fit and that's when you need your squad. How long does he and Elliot accept being squad players?
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Jones is a player I think is more than someone who is just waiting for others to be injured , he isn’t just sitting there on the bench

He played just under 2000 mins last year out of 33 games he started over half of them

It was the one area that Slot “rotated”

The whole whenever everyone is fit I don’t think happens much these days and also Slot appears to have different ideas on which midfield 3 to go for depending on opposition

He will play a lot next season

Elliot though will leave - he won’t get many games outside the cup games - even more so when they are looking for Wirtz to come in
 
Arthur Wedge said:
My thoughts on the English “media” - very clear , there are multiple outlets that should be out of business

But it’s not just the media

It’s also silly comparisons to past players

And yes youngsters will bomb in other countries

But imo they have a better chance in places like Spain

But you compared him to Messi and judged him on a friendly last night - as opposed to last summer when he was outstanding or at times during the CL - even Messi himself had bad games for his country - took him 16 years to win a major tournament with Argentina
Click to expand...
I wasn't comparing him to Messi all off my own back. The point I was making is that I don't see why so many others have compared him to Messi, as if he is the next coming of Messi. They seem to be very different types of players, so the only reason they can be doing it is that he is an very good young player that plays for Barcelona.

Thus, I don't think there is any need for you to highlight the poor parts of Messi's record, unless you yourself are trying to compare the two players?

Do the Premier League have more money that the other leagues, and thus buy in a lot of the top players from around the world? Whereas other leagues use more of their youngsters in their leagues? That may be why other nationalities develop their young players better, and perhaps more young English players need to move abroad, and become a key part of a first 11 that a squad player at a top PL club. Even if they become a key player in a mid to lower table side in the PL, that seems to stunt their progress, as they may often get overlooked for the national team.

But, I suspect all media are the same these days. You hear of fans in Spain, for example, becoming very toxic to their players at times, even their best players. I'm sure the media love to fuel on that, and the fans are egged on by the media
 
Swango1980 said:
I wasn't comparing him to Messi all off my own back. The point I was making is that I don't see why so many others have compared him to Messi, as if he is the next coming of Messi. They seem to be very different types of players, so the only reason they can be doing it is that he is an very good young player that plays for Barcelona.

Thus, I don't think there is any need for you to highlight the poor parts of Messi's record, unless you yourself are trying to compare the two players?

Do the Premier League have more money that the other leagues, and thus buy in a lot of the top players from around the world? Whereas other leagues use more of their youngsters in their leagues? That may be why other nationalities develop their young players better, and perhaps more young English players need to move abroad, and become a key part of a first 11 that a squad player at a top PL club. Even if they become a key player in a mid to lower table side in the PL, that seems to stunt their progress, as they may often get overlooked for the national team.

But, I suspect all media are the same these days. You hear of fans in Spain, for example, becoming very toxic to their players at times, even their best players. I'm sure the media love to fuel on that, and the fans are egged on by the media
Click to expand...

If you are just comparing styles of player then him having a poor game last night should be as relevant as anytime Messi had a poor game internationally 🤷‍♂️

Yamal is a player who destroyed international teams within the Euros at the age of 16 , his career path ahead of him can allow him to get to the level of honours that Messi reached - even if they play a different style of game
 
Arthur Wedge said:
If you are just comparing styles of player then him having a poor game last night should be as relevant as anytime Messi had a poor game internationally 🤷‍♂️

Yamal is a player who destroyed international teams within the Euros at the age of 16 , his career path ahead of him can allow him to get to the level of honours that Messi reached - even if they play a different style of game
Click to expand...
Why are you comparing Yamal to Messi? You are guilty of doing the very thing you were critical of only a few posts ago, when you said:

"Exactly - comparisons to Messi whilst only natural are silly , let him grow as a player without expectations being lumped on him"
 
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