The Footie Thread

[Deleted member 36742]

It’s Gareth mk2.

Definitely not as Tuchel came out and admitted on national radio and TV that the performance was not good enough.

Did the right thing by not naming individuals but didn't offer up the usual platitudes and made it clear that, as a team, they had underperformed.

 

[Slime]

So a second striker is the position you would think he would make his own? IE a striker who plays deeper

He is a striker. A play making striker but by definition the lads a striker

I don't think he's a bad player at all , he isn't the goal scoring striker type. He reminds me of sheringham striker who brings others into the game but you would still class sir teddy as a striker

I'd regard Sherringham more as a centre forward than a striker, but that's splitting hairs somewhat.
Zirkzee is neither of those.
Maybe play him as a false 9, but he's more of a number 10, for me.
Neither of those positions should be confused with that of a striker.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I'd regard Sherringham more as a centre forward than a striker, but that's splitting hairs somewhat.
Zirkzee is neither of those.
Maybe play him as a false 9, but he's more of a number 10, for me.
Neither of those positions should be confused with that of a striker.

Zirkzee comes across as a modern day sheringham considering the striker position isn't as filled as it once was

How many top teams use a striker?

Barca and munich do

City ? Only recently

Liverpool and Madrid don't

Seems to be a dying breed

 

[Billysboots]

9.5 doesn't exist tho.

Considering that's tracking what position managers have played him in that's 218 games managers have played him as a cf .. IE a striker

He may be more of a play making striker but he is still a striker.

Oh, for pity’s sake, stop splitting hairs.

I’m surprisingly well aware of the fact that nobody wanders round a football pitch with the number 9.5 on their back. The point Slime is trying to make, as I have done myself more than once, is that Joshua Zirkzee is not a traditional goal hanging, goal scoring number 9, in the mould of a Haaland or a Lineker. It’s plainly obvious to anyone who watches football that Zirkzee is not that sort of player, so it matters not one iota what position a manager puts him down in on the team sheet, any more than it matters what number he has on his shirt. He is a more of a 10 who can score, than a traditional centre forward.

This argument all started again because one individual with a very clear agenda said United had issues with goal scoring, and had taken a backward step signing Zirkzee. It was pointed out, quite correctly, that filling the CF void was not what Zirkzee was signed for, as that is not his role.

And then we are faced with someone trying to reinforce the counter argument by telling us all that we’re wrong, effectively because that is the position Zirkzee occupies on the back of a match programme. But hey, let’s ignore the actual fans who watch him play and, more pertinently, the player himself.

The point being made is that Joshua Zirkzee is not a goal scoring CF. He may be a striker by virtue of the fact he plays in the opposing penalty area more than his own, but wheeling out stats like you have done so you can proclaim you’re right, and fans who actually watch games, in my case very often first hand, are wrong is just getting extremely petty.

 

[clubchamp98]

Definitely not as Tuchel came out and admitted on national radio and TV that the performance was not good enough.

Did the right thing by not naming individuals but didn't offer up the usual platitudes and made it clear that, as a team, they had underperformed.

Yes he admitted they were (crap) not just good enough.

But he set up with a defensive midfield player to protect the back four! Against Andorra?
It’s why imo Henderson had nothing to do he looked a bit lost as there was nothing to protect.

It was no better than a GS team display

 

[clubchamp98]

Oh, for pity’s sake, stop splitting hairs.

I’m surprisingly well aware of the fact that nobody wanders round a football pitch with the number 9.5 on their back. The point Slime is trying to make, as I have done myself more than once, is that Joshua Zirkzee is not a traditional goal hanging, goal scoring number 9, in the mould of a Haaland or a Lineker. It’s plainly obvious to anyone who watches football that Zirkzee is not that sort of player, so it matters not one iota what position a manager puts him down in on the team sheet, any more than it matters what number he has on his shirt. He is a more of a 10 who can score, than a traditional centre forward.

This argument all started again because one individual with a very clear agenda said United had issues with goal scoring, and had taken a backward step signing Zirkzee. It was pointed out, quite correctly, that filling the CF void was not what Zirkzee was signed for, as that is not his role.

And then we are faced with someone trying to reinforce the counter argument by telling us all that we’re wrong, effectively because that is the position Zirkzee occupies on the back of a match programme. But hey, let’s ignore the actual fans who watch him play and, more pertinently, the player himself.

The point being made is that Joshua Zirkzee is not a goal scoring CF. He may be a striker by virtue of the fact he plays in the opposing penalty area more than his own, but wheeling out stats like you have done so you can proclaim you’re right, and fans who actually watch games, in my case very often first hand, are wrong is just getting extremely petty.

I agree with your assessment.
Do you think this had a hand in your lack of scoring.
As your two wide men don’t score that many.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Oh, for pity’s sake, stop splitting hairs.

I’m surprisingly well aware of the fact that nobody wanders round a football pitch with the number 9.5 on their back. The point Slime is trying to make, as I have done myself more than once, is that Joshua Zirkzee is not a traditional goal hanging, goal scoring number 9, in the mould of a Haaland or a Lineker. It’s plainly obvious to anyone who watches football that Zirkzee is not that sort of player, so it matters not one iota what position a manager puts him down in on the team sheet, any more than it matters what number he has on his shirt. He is a more of a 10 who can score, than a traditional centre forward.

This argument all started again because one individual with a very clear agenda said United had issues with goal scoring, and had taken a backward step signing Zirkzee. It was pointed out, quite correctly, that filling the CF void was not what Zirkzee was signed for, as that is not his role.

And then we are faced with someone trying to reinforce the counter argument by telling us all that we’re wrong, effectively because that is the position Zirkzee occupies on the back of a match programme. But hey, let’s ignore the actual fans who watch him play and, more pertinently, the player himself.

The point being made is that Joshua Zirkzee is not a goal scoring CF. He may be a striker by virtue of the fact he plays in the opposing penalty area more than his own, but wheeling out stats like you have done so you can proclaim you’re right, and fans who actually watch games, in my case very often first hand, are wrong is just getting extremely petty.

He is a striker tho.

Just more in the heskey, sheringham mould of striker rather than the Andy cole , linker haaland striker

He comes under the striker umbrella. Much like an 8 and a 4 in traditional games are midfielders but entirely different roles

You wouldn't go and claim oh Nicky butt wasn't a midfielder just because he played an entirely different midfield role to scholes for example

He isn't a goal scoring cf but he does play the CF role (218 times) he's not got a bad record either from there with 84 goals.. but importantly he has 48 assists.... Now that's outstanding for any striker .. which shows as I said he creates for others whilst playing the forward role.

 

[Billysboots]

I agree with your assessment.
Do you think this had a hand in your lack of scoring.
As your two wide men don’t score that many.

Zirkzee himself took some time to even begin to find his feet. He got himself into some great positions and then, when in possession, his footballing brain appeared to be lagging behind as he looked utterly bereft of any idea what to do with it.

That may be partly down to him playing in a new league and in a change of system but, in hindsight, it could equally be that those around him didn’t help.

Whatever, the lack of goals is not just a problem United had during the season just gone. They have been goal shy longer than that and it must therefore follow that the problem is bigger than Zirkzee. It stretches throughout the team.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Zirkzee himself took some time to even begin to find his feet. He got himself into some great positions and then, when in possession, his footballing brain appeared to be lagging behind as he looked utterly bereft of any idea what to do with it.

That may be partly down to him playing in a new league and in a change of system but, in hindsight, it could equally be that those around him didn’t help.

Whatever, the lack of goals is not just a problem United had during the season just gone. They have been goal shy longer than that and it must therefore follow that the problem is bigger than Zirkzee. It stretches throughout the team.

With Cunha and brian on the wings do you need a "striker" when he is the perfect set up to bring them into play?

 

[Deleted member 36742]

Yes he admitted they were (crap) not just good enough.

But he set up with a defensive midfield player to protect the back four! Against Andorra?
It’s why imo Henderson had nothing to do he looked a bit lost as there was nothing to protect.

It was no better than a GS team display

So the manager has changed but the performance hasn't.

Maybe then it is the players who are to blame.

 

[Billysboots]

He is a striker tho.

Just more in the heskey, sheringham mould of striker rather than the Andy cole , linker haaland striker

He comes under the striker umbrella. Much like an 8 and a 4 in traditional games are midfielders but entirely different roles

You wouldn't go and claim oh Nicky butt wasn't a midfielder just because he played an entirely different midfield role to scholes for example

He isn't a goal scoring cf but he does play the CF role (218 times) he's not got a bad record either from there with 84 goals.. but importantly he has 48 assists.... Now that's outstanding for any striker .. which shows as I said he creates for others whilst playing the forward role.

Paul, for the final time. It does not matter what goes on the team sheet. Really, it doesn’t. Citing Nicky Butt in support of your cause is just petty.

Answer me this. How many times have you actually sat in the stands and watched him play? Because ultimately that’s what matters. Not what position a manager jots down on a piece of paper.

You’re bordering now on arguing with yourself, because I have already said Zirkzee is a striker, forward, attacking player, whatever you want to call him, by virtue of the fact he spends more time in the opposition area than his own. I said as much in my last reply.

What he isn’t is a goal scoring centre forward in the traditional sense, so for anyone to suggest his lack of goals means he’s a crap striker and that United took a step back by signing him is just, sadly, someone trying to pick an online fight.

I’m done with this particular exchange.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Paul, for the final time. It does not matter what goes on the team sheet. Really, it doesn’t. Citing Nicky Butt in support of your cause is just petty.

Answer me this. How many times have you actually sat in the stands and watched him play? Because ultimately that’s what matters. Not what position a manager jots down on a piece of paper.

You’re bordering now on arguing with yourself, because I have already said Zirkzee is a striker, forward, attacking player, whatever you want to call him, by virtue of the fact he spends more time in the opposition area than his own. I said as much in my last reply.

What he isn’t is a goal scoring centre forward in the traditional sense, so for anyone to suggest his lack of goals means he’s a crap striker and that United took a step back by signing him is just, sadly, someone trying to pick an online fight.

I’m done with this particular exchange.

I never said he was poor striker because he doesn't score goals. There is more to a striker than goals. As I said he is heskey / sheringham type striker

And as I said on the next post do you need a proper "striker" if Brian and Cunha come in with Zirkzee is playing them into the scoring positions?

Also "in the stands" doesn't cut mustard. To suggest that in 2025 shows a lack of understanding of the game.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Zirkzee is a forward , he is someone who gets involved in the play , drops a little deeper to help create , he isn’t a on the last defender type striker

 

[clubchamp98]

So the manager has changed but the performance hasn't.

Maybe then it is the players who are to blame.

Yes I think the players must take some of the blame!

But he’s picking GS team which included Henderson.
I expected the new manager to start playing the new talent we have ( ready for the World Cup)not go backwards to older players who have had their chance.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Zirkzee is a forward , he is someone who gets involved in the play , drops a little deeper to help create , he isn’t a on the last defender type striker

Don't think anyone was saying he was.

Just there is more than one type of striker in the game.

 

[Billysboots]

I never said he was poor striker because he doesn't score goals.

I didn’t say you did. You waded into the exchange after someone else had made that point.

Also "in the stands" doesn't cut mustard. To suggest that in 2025 shows a lack of understanding of the game.

Oh, my apologies. My opinion as a match going fan who watches games clearly counts for nothing. The point I was making, as you well know, was that first hand observations are perhaps more valid to a debate like this than a fistful of team sheets. If you genuinely think otherwise then it’s not worth discussing this with you.

I’m out.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Don't think anyone was saying he was.

Just there is more than one type of striker in the game.

He is a “forward”

He isn’t a striker in the same way Firmino wasn’t a striker , when people talk strikers - it’s the high up leading the line type of player

Zirkzee is a versatile forward. His height and strength enable him to be dominant in the air as well as play with his back to goal and hold up the ball. Despite his tall frame, he has excellent technique and dribbling abilities which also allow him to drop deeper into a more traditional playmaker position.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I didn’t say you did. You waded into the exchange after someone else had made that point.



Oh, my apologies. My opinion as a match going fan who watches games clearly counts for nothing. The point I was making, as you well know, was that first hand observations are perhaps more valid to a debate like this than a fistful of team sheets. If you genuinely think otherwise then it’s not worth discussing this with you.

I’m out.

I never said it counted for nothing stop being over sensitive.

Match going fans views are valid as are "arm chair" fans as they get the broader aspect of all play with the benefit of replays

Also studying form and data in 2025 provides very detailed analysis of players .. IE the Brighton and Brentford scouting format.

"First hand" observations are outdated as the be all and end all. Gone are the days when that was the only way to judge a player because there wasn't other ways!

 

[clubchamp98]

I didn’t say you did. You waded into the exchange after someone else had made that point.



Oh, my apologies. My opinion as a match going fan who watches games clearly counts for nothing. The point I was making, as you well know, was that first hand observations are perhaps more valid to a debate like this than a fistful of team sheets. If you genuinely think otherwise then it’s not worth discussing this with you.

I’m out.

I would say at the match in the stands you see much more of the positional play and work rate off the ball.
The tv cameras follow the ball most of the time and you don’t see a lot of what goes on off the ball.

This reminds me of the TAA debate as to whether he was a good defender, but Klopp used him further forward and not as a ridged full back.
Anyway that debate has gone now.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

He is a “forward”

He isn’t a striker in the same way Firmino wasn’t a striker , when people talk strikers - it’s the high up leading the line type of player

Zirkzee is a versatile forward. His height and strength enable him to be dominant in the air as well as play with his back to goal and hold up the ball. Despite his tall frame, he has excellent technique and dribbling abilities which also allow him to drop deeper into a more traditional playmaker position.

Good copying and pasting