The Footie Thread

[Arthur Wedge]

Heh heh.

But the thing is, the "Big Six" doesn't (necessarily) equate to league position.

As I said a couple of posts ago, Man Utd are in the absolute doldrums on the pitch and yet they are still able to attract and pay for top talent and sooner or later they'll be back challenging.

Same applies to Spurs. They could sack Ange tomorrow, click their fingers at just about any other manager in the Prem outside the Big Six and he would come running. (And that would be true even if they hadn't qualified for CL via winning the Europa).

That sort of thing is really what I mean when I talk about their protected position. Not just results on the pitch. The very fact that even when they're dog***t, they can still attract the best options to turn it round. It's a position no-one else can ever hope to get near to under the current rules. I mean, if people are OK with that, that's fine and you're absolutely entitled to hold that view. I get why fans of The Protected Six wouldn't want it to change. Personally, I dislike it though and will never agree it's anything but unfair on everyone else.

They can attract the players because of the clubs they are and the levels revenue they bring in

Man Utd even during the 70’s and 80’s still attracted the best players because they are ultimately one of the biggest clubs in the sport

The likes of Man Utd and indeed Liverpool built the club up

We dropped down a level and had to build back up

Clubs need the big new stadiums and the big sponsors to come

Man Utd will always earn a fortune regardless of how well they are doing

 

[Bdill93]

They can attract the players because of the clubs they are and the levels revenue they bring in

Man Utd even during the 70’s and 80’s still attracted the best players because they are ultimately one of the biggest clubs in the sport

The likes of Man Utd and indeed Liverpool built the club up

We dropped down a level and had to build back up

Clubs need the big new stadiums and the big sponsors to come

Man Utd will always earn a fortune regardless of how well they are doing

Very true!

I mean 80k in their stadium basically generates double what most teams in the prem will make each match-day alone. Triple some I'm sure!

Spread that over a season of 19 home games plus cups and Europe - its a massive hole for clubs like Villa/ Forest/ Newcastle to address.

 

[Swango1980]

Why are you stereotyping Forest fans?
I don't resent any other clubs. Personally, I think we're very fortunate to have the backing of an unusually enthusiastic and philanthropic owner.
I also think there should be a more sensible mechanism that prevents any franchise chucking millions around like it's Monopoly money while others have to sell off homegrown assets to avoid penalties.

Sorry, I wasn't stereotyping Forest fans, it was just Forest fans that were the subject in this discussion. I'm really stereotyping ALL fans (again, in general, I know very individual is different).

Football fans are selfish, and want the best for their clubs. So, it is quite easy to look above you and have a bitterness / jealousy towards other clubs that seem to be in a stronger position, whilst ignoring the very many clubs below you and what they don't have that you do.

Some Forest fans may be very outspoken against the so called protected Top 6 now. However, hypothetically, if Forest sustain their position over the next 5 years, do well in Europe, and then start becoming a real force over the next 10-15 years, then the attitude of many of these same Forest fans would no doubt change. If current big clubs like Man Utd fall, and are really struggle over the next decade, and then make a mini resurgence in 15 years time, I don't expect many Forest fans to be crying out for equality, and supporting any Man Utd fans who complain they cannot compete with Forest

I have no idea what the ideal system is, if it was that easy I'm sure it would already be implemented. I've always felt that the finances should be kept up to date every season, so that it would be impossible for a club to buy players that put them over-budget (as PL just doesn't sign it off). But, I guess that must be too simplistic. That being said, although the clubs that have generated wealth can just throw that wealth about like confetti, they can still run into problems as Man Utd are now doing. They will still look to bring players in, but they need to be clever in the players they offload.

Chelsea will possibly become an interesting case next. From a few months ago, apparently they owe just under £500 million in transfer fees. Spurs £307 million. I was surprised to see West Ham, Leeds and Wolves were quite high, just under £200 million.

 

[4LEX]

What's the word with Reading's new owners 4LEX? Are they willing and able to make some signings over the summer?

He's already done quite a lot. Made more public statements in 2 weeks than the previous owner did in 8 years which is refreshing!

A new investor has been brought in already pending EFL approval, another American who will provide some financial firepower if needed. I think the plan is to run the club properly, no huge transfers fees but smart signings and gradually kick on. He's made it clear there's money for the right players though.

He's appointed Joe Jacobson as joint CEO. He's one of the few players who retired and wanted to work in the business side of football. He's got his degree and seems very clued up so exciting to see how he gets on.

Our best player (Lewis Wing) who was already under contract has signed a new 3 years deal which is a statement of intent. New contracts have been offered to the other key players which hopefully will be signed this week.

I'd love us to keep Savage as he's slowly improving and we've not had the quality out wide or up front to get the best from him. Man Utd also have a 50% sell on clause but at least with a proper owner we won't be forced into selling players for peanuts.

I really think we'll finish Top 3 and have a good shout of automatic

 

[Don Barzini]

But I remember Forest being a BIG club winning with Brian Clough many shiny things.
So was it the fault of the big six or your own fault through bad decisions over the years.?

I mean, when Cloughie did all that it was different times wasn't it?

1976-77 Forest finished third in the Second Division and got promotion.

1977-78 they won the Division One title, first year in the top flight.

Following two years 1979 and 1980, they won back to back European Cups.

It was possible in those days. It's unthinkable now. It's the equivalent of Sunderland winning the Prem next year and then the Champions League for the two seasons after! It just couldn't happen. So equating it to nowadays is a bit like comparing apples and oranges I guess.

By the way and just to clarify, I don't blame Protected Six clubs for things being the way they are. They didn't make the rules, as far as I know. They just thrive under them. Of course they're happy with the way things are. I would be too - but I like to think I wouldn't deny the fact that the rules were in my favour!

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Very true!

I mean 80k in their stadium basically generates double what most teams in the prem will make each match-day alone. Triple some I'm sure!

Spread that over a season of 19 home games plus cups and Europe - its a massive hole for clubs like Villa/ Forest/ Newcastle to address.

And it’s not just bums on seats , huge corp packages , add in massive shirt sales and their revenue goes through the roof

 

[Don Barzini]

He's already done quite a lot. Made more public statements in 2 weeks than the previous owner did in 8 years which is refreshing!

A new investor has been brought in already pending EFL approval, another American who will provide some financial firepower if needed. I think the plan is to run the club properly, no huge transfers fees but smart signings and gradually kick on. He's made it clear there's money for the right players though.

He's appointed Joe Jacobson as joint CEO. He's one of the few players who retired and wanted to work in the business side of football. He's got his degree and seems very clued up so exciting to see how he gets on.

Our best player (Lewis Wing) who was already under contract has signed a new 3 years deal which is a statement of intent. New contracts have been offered to the other key players which hopefully will be signed this week.

I'd love us to keep Savage as he's slowly improving and we've not had the quality out wide or up front to get the best from him. Man Utd also have a 50% sell on clause but at least with a proper owner we won't be forced into selling players for peanuts.

I really think we'll finish Top 3 and have a good shout of automatic

This is good to hear. I've got a soft spot for Reading and hope they can get back somewhere near their former higher levels.

(Did a FC25 manager career mode with Reading last year - Kelvin Ehibhatiomhan, Charlie Savage and Harvey Knibbs were all absolute ballers for me! Femi Azeez too, but he's gone to Millwall now hasn't he?!)

 

[Aztecs27]

He's already done quite a lot. Made more public statements in 2 weeks than the previous owner did in 8 years which is refreshing!

A new investor has been brought in already pending EFL approval, another American who will provide some financial firepower if needed. I think the plan is to run the club properly, no huge transfers fees but smart signings and gradually kick on. He's made it clear there's money for the right players though.

He's appointed Joe Jacobson as joint CEO. He's one of the few players who retired and wanted to work in the business side of football. He's got his degree and seems very clued up so exciting to see how he gets on.

Our best player (Lewis Wing) who was already under contract has signed a new 3 years deal which is a statement of intent. New contracts have been offered to the other key players which hopefully will be signed this week.

I'd love us to keep Savage as he's slowly improving and we've not had the quality out wide or up front to get the best from him. Man Utd also have a 50% sell on clause but at least with a proper owner we won't be forced into selling players for peanuts.

I really think we'll finish Top 3 and have a good shout of automatic

As long as we can have Tyler Bindon back for next season, we wish you well!

 

[clubchamp98]

I mean, when Cloughie did all that it was different times wasn't it?

1976-77 Forest finished third in the Second Division and got promotion.

1977-78 they won the Division One title, first year in the top flight.

Following two years 1979 and 1980, they won back to back European Cups.

It was possible in those days. It's unthinkable now. It's the equivalent of Sunderland winning the Prem next year and then the Champions League for the two seasons after! It just couldn't happen. So equating it to nowadays is a bit like comparing apples and oranges I guess.

By the way and just to clarify, I don't blame Protected Six clubs for things being the way they are. They didn't make the rules, as far as I know. They just thrive under them. Of course they're happy with the way things are. I would be too - but I like to think I wouldn't deny the fact that the rules were in my favour!

Yes I get it was different times but other clubs changed with the times and remained at the top.
But Forest must have made different choices to others.

I remember Forest playing at Anfield great team to watch and feared in those days.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I mean, when Cloughie did all that it was different times wasn't it?

1976-77 Forest finished third in the Second Division and got promotion.

1977-78 they won the Division One title, first year in the top flight.

Following two years 1979 and 1980, they won back to back European Cups.

It was possible in those days. It's unthinkable now. It's the equivalent of Sunderland winning the Prem next year and then the Champions League for the two seasons after! It just couldn't happen. So equating it to nowadays is a bit like comparing apples and oranges I guess.

By the way and just to clarify, I don't blame Protected Six clubs for things being the way they are. They didn't make the rules, as far as I know. They just thrive under them. Of course they're happy with the way things are. I would be too - but I like to think I wouldn't deny the fact that the rules were in my favour!

Who are the current protected 6 ?

Liverpool
Arsenal
Man City
Man Utd
Chelsea
Spurs

?

 

[Don Barzini]

Who are the current protected 6 ?

Liverpool
Arsenal
Man City
Man Utd
Chelsea
Spurs

?

Yes.....but I mean, I genuinely didn't intend to get into this again today and have been drawn in! I feel like we've done this dance many times before!

I made a throwaway comment in a reply to Billd93 which is where it started. It wasn't my intention to go down this route again, so I withdraw from these discussions as far as the rest of today is concerned!

Shall we talk about something else, maybe something we haven't covered before?

So......what are anyone's thoughts on Trent Alexander-Arnold's move to Real Madrid?

 

[Tashyboy]

I'll hold my hands up and admit I don't pretend to have answers which don't come with their own set of problems.

But the fact that club investors/owners are forbidden to spend their own money on a club is the issue for me. The fact that only certain clubs are FORCED to sell their best players while a few select others aren't, is horrendous. There has to be a way around that. I don't believe the rules such as they exist are fair. Whatever else they achieve, they simply keep the same few teams in a position which doesn't allow anyone else to make a sustained challenge on their dominance.

I am unfamiliar with the US sports model, but I wouldn't support the idea of the worst team getting the best players.

Amen to that and the only way to get onto the top table and break the cartel was to “ allegedly “ break the rules. Another problem is that Forest are this seasons example of a team laying down foundations for the next few years, only teams like City etc May well cherrypick MGW and other excellent players and the foundations start to crumble.

That aside, Joe Worral was playing behind our fourball last Thursday. Lazy sod did 18 holes on a buggy.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Amen to that and the only way to get onto the top table and break the cartel was to “ allegedly “ break the rules. Another problem is that Forest are this seasons example of a team laying down foundations for the next few years, only teams like City etc May well cherrypick MGW and other excellent players and the foundations start to crumble.

That aside, Joe Worral was playing behind our fourball last Thursday. Lazy sod did 18 holes on a buggy.

You don’t mind when your team is doing the cherry picking for all the best players from other clubs

Certainly didn’t mind being part of a “cartel” when you were winning league titles and champions league

 

[3 jabber]

I'm hoping the results of Citeh's 115 charges work in everyone's favour and they get fined £1squillion and relegated to Conference North and the Saudis walk away leaving them to rot forever

 

[Swango1980]

I'm hoping the results of Citeh's 115 charges work in everyone's favour and they get fined £1squillion and relegated to Conference North and the Saudis walk away leaving them to rot forever

Although it would be very harsh on Newcastle if their Saudi owners left as a result of Man City's guilt.

A fairer outcome would be for the Emiratis to walk away

 

[SteveW86]

Apparently Sunderland don’t have a single player in their squad with even 1 premier league appearance.

We will be fine

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Apparently Sunderland don’t have a single player in their squad with even 1 premier league appearance.

We will be fine

Just the guys on loan ? Danns and Mepham

Also about to lose Bellingham as well it seems

 

[SteveW86]

Just the guys on loan ? Danns and Mepham

Also about to lose Bellingham as well it seems

It would be nice to see Bellingham give us one season in the prem

 

[Arthur Wedge]

It would be nice to see Bellingham give us one season in the prem

Yeah it’s an interesting call -stay and battle with Sunderland in the Prem and try and enhance your reputation or follow the same route as your bother - it’s prob easier to go to Frankfurt or Dortmund

 

[4LEX]

It would be nice to see Bellingham give us one season in the prem

Hasn't he signed a new deal recently?