The Footie Thread

[Arthur Wedge]

So Amorin has had 26 Prem games and won 6

Ultimately his stats since taking over have been worse than ETH

The teams seems to have gone backwards with very little improvement from many players bar Dallo

A lot of the criticism of Ange is not having a plan B but Amorin has nothing outside his plan A and seems very inflexible

So come the summer they clearly need a huge turnaround in players to fit his system

Or do they look at a manager who can get the best out of what they have there

Would Southgate been a better choice

 

[Bdill93]

So Amorin has had 26 Prem games and won 6

Ultimately his stats since taking over have been worse than ETH

The teams seems to have gone backwards with very little improvement from many players bar Dallo

A lot of the criticism of Ange is not having a plan B but Amorin has nothing outside his plan A and seems very inflexible

So come the summer they clearly need a huge turnaround in players to fit his system

Or do they look at a manager who can get the best out of what they have there

Would Southgate been a better choice

Give him anything he wants! We need him to stay!!!!

 

[Rlburnside]

I had a few exchanges with Spurs fans on Twitter about him. General consensus I got back was:

1) He only scores tap ins
2) He doesn’t track back enough
3) They’ll happily drive him back to Forest themselves

Yeah that's pretty much was I was saying. Perfectly understandable if he's given more time now - but he has to understand that his 'tactics' in the league were completely wrong and didn't work whatsoever. A bit more pragmatism required, or he'll just be sacked by November anyway.

It only needs a few tweaks to be honest. Instead of having the wing backs bombing inside and only leaving one midfielder to do all the defending, I'd just like see more conventional wing backs (overlapping and staying wide), plus a double pivot in the midfield. Lot of teams play that way but they do it because it works. He also needs to assess the constant injuries, because it's not luck, it's a bi-product of the way we play, sprinting around like headless chickens for 90 minutes, instead of just pressing at the right times.

I think all the sprinting is the crux of the matter press yes but do it sensibly, it’s frustrated me many a time to see Son sprinting around so much uneedlesly

 

[road2ruin]

Now the dust has settled slightly my thoughts on last night....

1. It was a truly terrible spectacle, the best team didn't win it was very much the least worst. It's a shame as whilst Spurs and United have been lamentable in the league they both fully deserved to be in the final with the performances in Europe however they both turned it into a Premier League game.

2. Ange got his tactics right, I think most expected them to go for it and play a high line. Instead he decided to try not to loose and see if they can nick one which they did with a goal that summed up the game perfectly.

3. I'm a supporter of Amorim, everyone knew what they were getting when they hired him and he was very honest about how things were going to pan out in the short term however last night he got almost everything wrong. The line up, the tactics and the most unforgivable of all in my opinion was leaving it until the 71st minute to make changes. Had Garnacho and Zirkee come on at half time I think the result may have been different as I don't think Spurs would have been able to defend like they did for the last 20 odd minutes for the full half. That is totally on him and it cost us.

4. Whilst no CL next season hurts United financially it's probably a good thing in terms of us not getting relegated next season. The squad isn't nearly deep enough or good enough to play in both competitions and at least playing in just the league means we can concentrate on trying to get to 40 points and another season of safety!

 

[Swango1980]

Now I've had time to sleep on it, my summary of Utd now that the season has ended (obviously the Villa game and the post season tour are meaningless).

I still have faith in Amorim, I generally like the guy. But, it is faith which is similar to hope rather than confidence. In all honestly, I had a higher level of confidence in ETH. I thought ETH did really well with the circus he came to, the types of diva players he had, or inexperienced players, and the absences last season (often felt like 30-50% of the side were missing in any given game). The start to this season was poor, but then again, look at the players. People can blame the manager for signing, but I put more blame on the board. No way any manager would have said no to a quality striker being signed. But, Utd obviously felt relying on Hojlund and buying a low goal scorer like Zirkzee was a great idea.

Since ETH has gone, just look at what this bunch have given us. They are born losers. There is no real injury crisis this year, just a normal level of injuries really. At the beginning, everyone was happy that Amorim was telling us like it is, rather than being falsely positive. However, when you agree with the media after every game to stop them harassing you, when you continually say things like this being the worst Utd team ever and how bad things really are, then the players and himself will just start to accept that. There is no fight in that bunch, not an ounce. Sure, he might not have the players to truly fit his system. But, in reality, he probably does, they just aren't good enough or nowhere near their potential. He has a decent bunch of centre backs, I'm actually not concerned in that area other than when they get injured. He now has a left wing back bought for him (and Shaw if he ever stays fit), and he has Dalot and Mazaroui on the right (albeit both are rubbish in attack). He has a bunch of midfielders that can play in the 4 positions in the middle (Casemiro, Ugarte, Mainoo, Eriksen, Mount, Mainoo plus Garnacho and Amad albeit they are more wide players). And he has had Hojlund fit for most of the time. Yes, he could do with more specialists in some of those areas, or just generally a hell of a lot more quality and experience. But, the players he has had are not generally playing out of position, but he has been unable to get them to play at all in attack. Is it truly down to the fact that there are no sustained training sessions, due to having 2 games a week? If he has a long pre season, and they continually work on his style of play, will it all come together? God, I can only hope so. And I will support him going into next season, assuming he stays. But I will have to half cover my eyes when I watch the opening game next season.

Even in last nights game, why didn't Amorim make subs sooner, given how bad the first half was? Maybe he thought Spurs were even worse, and felt there was a danger subs might actually help Spurs improve, as they couldn;t get much worse (from their attacking perspective). But, surely at least bringing Garnacho on for Mount and Zirkzee on for Hojlund was a no brainer at half time?

Hojlund is a shocker. Before Amorim arrived, his finishing rate was superb, and he held the ball up well and brought others into play. It was just disappointing that his team mates never tried to find him with a pass. Since Amorim, he has turned into one of the worst looking strikers in the history of the Premier League. He'll run about a lot, yes. But it seems he does it just to look busy, without any real intent of wanting the ball. He is completely unable to find space and any time. If the ball does come to him, he is easily dispossessed. If we had a 40 year old Ronaldo who did no running, you could bet that he would be heavily involved in nearly every game. He would find space with easy. He'd be confident. His team mates would have confidence in him. If he wasn't getting the passes, he'd have the balls to let his team mates know in an instant. And he would have the instinct to be in the right place at the right time for a finish, and he has a brilliant ability in timing his run to meet a cross perfectly. He reads the game before the ball is played. Hojlund doesn't, he reacts well after the ball has been played, and is in no mans land. I've no idea how he can improve his game, whether it is possible, whether Amorim can work on it pre season, whether he goes on loan or whether he just leaves and plays somewhere with less limelight. But Utd need to find someone in the No. 9 position desperately. They need 2 or 3, so there is cover and competition. But, there is clearly a real lack of No. 9's in the world, given other big clubs can't even get one. But, I'm at the point I'd have Igalho or Weghorst, at their current age, than Hojlund.

It is true that Bruno is often the match winner, and one of the very few players that doesn't hide. But, when he doesn't do well, then Utd are in big big trouble. My over 35's footy team is like that, as we have one guy (who is only just 35) who is a brilliant footballer and fitter than everyone else. He runs everywhere and is always shouting and screaming for the ball, so the rest of us always look to pick him out. He is the match winner a lot. But, if he is having a bad day, we are really poor, despite having a load of very good players. because we still try and pick him out all the time, it is difficult for anyone else to become the leader of the pack so to speak. Bruno seems like that. None of the other Utd players, especially those in the middle of the park, seem to be able to rise to the occasion. They are in the shadow of Bruno. Even if he is playing badly, he will still run all over the place and demand the ball off them. Whereas we didn't see Mason Mount running all over the place to find space, and shouting and screaming for the ball. On one hand, it is scary to think of Bruno leaving. On the other, if we are genuinely getting a £120 million offer for him, I'd probably sell him in an instant. He is 30 now, turning 31 at the start of next season. We are losing out on so much money next year, if that sort of money was offered it has to be best to get rid of him and find a new set of players to build your team around.

The amount of money we'll lose next year by not being in money is incredible. Just in qualifying and prize money, you could be looking at around £50-70 million (Arsenal got £70 million this year). No idea how much Utd are losing out in sponsorship penalties. And in gate receipts, even if Utd only played in the group stages, you could be looking at around £20 million for 4 home games I think.

Lots of negativity for obvious reasons. Worried that the board got trigger happy for the new hipster manager rather than staying strong with their summer decision and taking it through the season at least with ETH. Worried that we will lose a huge amount of ground on the other clubs that qualify for Europe and this World Club Cup thingy. To think there are so many English clubs in Europe next season, and Utd are not one of them despite the money we've had to spend is an embarrassment for the people that have run the club.

I'm not all negative though. I stuck £20 on Man Utd to win the PL next season

 

[Beezerk]

Any chance of someone condensing into about 3 lines please?

 

[SteveW86]

Any chance of someone condensing into about 3 lines please?

Utd are garbage, but he has blind faith so has bet on them to win the league next year

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Any chance of someone condensing into about 3 lines please?

United are back - Amorin is at the wheel

 

[SteveW86]

Any chance of someone condensing into about 3 lines please?

Thought it was one of Ori’s match reports at first

 

[road2ruin]

Any chance of someone condensing into about 3 lines please?

ChatGPT suggests....

United’s season reflects deep structural failings, with Amorim offering honesty but little inspiration or progress. The squad lacks fight, identity, and quality up front—Højlund especially has regressed under pressure. Selling Bruno might be wise financially, but losing leadership without a plan could deepen the crisis.

 

[Swango1980]

ChatGPT suggests....

United’s season reflects deep structural failings, with Amorim offering honesty but little inspiration or progress. The squad lacks fight, identity, and quality up front—Højlund especially has regressed under pressure. Selling Bruno might be wise financially, but losing leadership without a plan could deepen the crisis.

You missed the bit at the end:

They are worth a £20 bet on the Premier League title next year, decent odds

 

[road2ruin]

You missed the bit at the end:

They are worth a £20 bet on the Premier League title next year, decent odds

"The author has just lost £20."

 

[Swango1980]

Any chance of someone condensing into about 3 lines please?

Utd are (insert naughty word)

Utd will continue to be (insert naught word)

Donate your money to the bookmakers by betting on them.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Bet the Utd forums are fun today

 

[Pin-seeker]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1925470615588188292

 

[Neilds]

All this talk about managers not having the players to fit his system is a bit of a smokescreen to me.
You need a goalie, some defenders, some midfielders and some attackers. The first 2 groups stop goals, the last group score goals and the 3rd group does a bit of both. This is the same for any formation, system or style of play and not much changes. A left back doesn't do much different than a left wing back, a midfielder at the base of a diamond doesn't do much different than a midfielder in a flat formation, etc
Man Utd do not need a whole new team to fit the managers system, it is not too different that how every other team plays (same for Spurs, and the rest that have struggled this year) just needs the current players to do what they are paid to do and do it better.

 

[Billysboots]

It seems Garnacho has been quite vocal on social media regarding Amorim’s decision to give him just 20 minutes last night.

It grinds my gears when players do this. Garnacho has a short memory, given the golden chance he missed to kill off the home leg against Lyon, and I also recall him missing another great chance against Bilbao, before they took a one goal lead. Mason Mount, on the other hand, played a big role in the second leg a couple of weeks ago, so had perhaps done enough to earn a start last night, albeit he then didn’t have much influence.

I’m not sure Amorim is going to take kindly to one of his players publicly questioning a decision, and it’s not the first time Garnacho’s social media use has been suspect. I really do think he will be moved on in the summer, that belief only being reinforced by the need to generate transfer revenue now the club have missed out on the CL gravy train.

As for last night? Statistically, United were by far the better side. But as I’ve argued more than once here when others have cited stats in support of an argument, the only numbers which count are in the for and against column. And once again, the failure to sign a proven central striker last summer to take the focus of a young player in Hojlund, still learning his craft, has been United’s downfall.

If you can’t score, you win nowt. It’s not rocket science.

 

[road2ruin]

Can't help but read the reaction on Twitter and can't help but feel sorry for Onana for the flak he is getting. I'm not saying that he hasn't had shockers this season and it's arguable as to whether he is up to the job however I just can't see how he can be held responsible for the goal last night. The ball bounced back out and Shaw got in the way and it went back into the goal. Seems extremely harsh.

 

[Swango1980]

It seems Garnacho has been quite vocal on social media regarding Amorim’s decision to give him just 20 minutes last night.

It grinds my gears when players do this. Garnacho has a short memory, given the golden chance he missed to kill off the home leg against Lyon, and I also recall him missing another great chance against Bilbao, before they took a one goal lead. Mason Mount, on the other hand, played a big role in the second leg a couple of weeks ago, so had perhaps done enough to earn a start last night, albeit he then didn’t have much influence.

I’m not sure Amorim is going to take kindly to one of his players publicly questioning a decision, and it’s not the first time Garnacho’s social media use has been suspect. I really do think he will be moved on in the summer, that belief only being reinforced by the need to generate transfer revenue now the club have missed out on the CL gravy train.

As for last night? Statistically, United were by far the better side. But as I’ve argued more than once here when others have cited stats in support of an argument, the only numbers which count are in the for and against column. And once again, the failure to sign a proven central striker last summer to take the focus of a young player in Hojlund, still learning his craft, has been United’s downfall.

If you can’t score, you win nowt. It’s not rocket science.

Sulking players like that are better off away from the club.

Yes, he was unfortunate not to start, and definitely unfortunate not to come off the bench a lot earlier.

That being said, he isn't massively unfortunate. In large spells he has also been garbage. He and his brother can talk about his highlights reel all they like, including going back to over a year ago to when he scored in the FA Cup final. But, for balance, I'd like him to talk us through the times he has done absolutely nothing for long spells, where he has run into blind alleys, where he has failed to pass to a team mate in a dangerous position and when he has missed golden opportunities. Nope, he chooses to forget about all those moments.

There are plenty of unhappy players at other clubs who stay pretty quiet. They may well end up leaving the club, or they may fight their way back into the side, but they don't broadcast their anger and frustration to the rest of the world, so we can all feel sorry for them. Garnacho really does seem to be learning everything he knows from Rashford, on and off the pitch. Prats

 

[Swango1980]

Can't help but read the reaction on Twitter and can't help but feel sorry for Onana for the flak he is getting. I'm not saying that he hasn't had shockers this season and it's arguable as to whether he is up to the job however I just can't see how he can be held responsible for the goal last night. The ball bounced back out and Shaw got in the way and it went back into the goal. Seems extremely harsh.

He may not be the best, but any keeper in that side will concede goals. Sometimes it will be a true error, sometimes not. But, it will nearly always be critical, because of the losers we have in attack.

We could have prime Schmeichel in that side, and he'd be hugely criticised nearly every time we concede. Mind you, he'd probably charge into the opponents half and grab the likes of Hojlund and Garnacho by the throat and tell them exactly what he thinks of them