The Footie Thread

[Swango1980]

It's about profit on transfers tho isn't It

Grealish goes down as 100 mil pure profit but say they sell Watkins for 50m that's only 20 mil profit so grealish gave them so much wiggle room

Yeah, but as I said, they've spent nearly 300 million since. So, financially, had they not sold Grealish, maybe they'd have only spent 200 million. Or a bit more than 200 million if they sold some other players for lesser profit.

 

[PaulMdj]

Really!?

Why do you think footballers are better in countries like England, Spain, Italy and Germany compared to players in Estonia, San Marino and Luxembourg? After all, it is the same game.

In bigger countries, you may have tens of thousands of people who want to become a referee, and only a few make it to the top level. In Estonia, I doubt they'd have anywhere near that level of people wanting to become referees. Firstly, due to sheer population size. Secondly, it is not quite a lucrative to becoming a referee in the Premier League.

That is irrelevant! You are judging people based on population size, smaller Countries do not produce inferior people!

And actually the Referee was from Sweden last night.

FIFA Ref since 2016, they don’t pull these guys out of thin air! They are proven at every level prior to getting to the CL.

 

[Swango1980]

That is irrelevant! You are judging people based on population size, smaller Countries do not produce inferior people!

And actually the Referee was from Sweden last night.

FIFA Ref since 2016, they don’t pull these guys out of thin air! They are proven at every level prior to getting to the CL.

I never said they were inferior as individual people.

If one man from the Vatican City wished to become a referee, he has an equally good chance as being as good a referee as one random individual from England, Spain, France or Italy (assuming they get the same level of training). Just as there should be an equal chance either person could become the best footballer on the planet.

But, if Spain presented their best referee in the country and we compared that to the the Vatican City's best referee in their country, my money is on the Spanish referee being better. Much better. Because that referee has already had to prove he is better than tens of thousands of other hopeful referees. The Vatican City's has not had the same level of competition. This is clearly not a judgement on one nation of people being inferior as individuals. It is simply based on mathematical probability.

Of course, all the above assumes all other variables are equal. That probably isn't true either. I suspect England, Spain, Italy and Germany invest much more heavily in training referees (as unbelievable as that sounds) than the level of training referees get in very small countries.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Really!?

Why do you think footballers are better in countries like England, Spain, Italy and Germany compared to players in Estonia, San Marino and Luxembourg? After all, it is the same game.

In bigger countries, you may have tens of thousands of people who want to become a referee, and only a few make it to the top level. In Estonia, I doubt they'd have anywhere near that level of people wanting to become referees. Firstly, due to sheer population size. Secondly, it is not quite a lucrative to becoming a referee in the Premier League.

Footballers are better in countries like England, Germany and Italy because they buy up all the best players from the smaller countries.

 

[PaulMdj]

I never said they were inferior as individual people.

If one man from the Vatican City wished to become a referee, he has an equally good chance as being as good a referee as one random individual from England, Spain, France or Italy (assuming they get the same level of training). Just as there should be an equal chance either person could become the best footballer on the planet.

But, if Spain presented their best referee in the country and we compared that to the the Vatican City's best referee in their country, my money is on the Spanish referee being better. Much better. Because that referee has already had to prove he is better than tens of thousands of other hopeful referees. The Vatican City's has not had the same level of competition. This is clearly not a judgement on one nation of people being inferior as individuals. It is simply based on mathematical probability.

Of course, all the above assumes all other variables are equal. That probably isn't true either. I suspect England, Spain, Italy and Germany invest much more heavily in training referees (as unbelievable as that sounds) than the level of training referees get in very small countries.

We are talking about CL Referees! Not some bloke refing in a park!

Regardless of place of birth they have to meet the same standard, Spain may put forward 20 Refs and Estonia 1, but they will all be in equal in terms of being chosen for FIFA/UEFA list.

 

[Don Barzini]

Difference between this one snd the Elliott pen is that the opposition player was trying to get the ball, as said above Neuer made no effort, if Neuer had moved towards Saka I could of seen it given.

It's still c̶h̶e̶a̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ being clever in both cases.

 

[Hobbit]

I never said they were inferior as individual people.

If one man from the Vatican City wished to become a referee, he has an equally good chance as being as good a referee as one random individual from England, Spain, France or Italy (assuming they get the same level of training). Just as there should be an equal chance either person could become the best footballer on the planet.

But, if Spain presented their best referee in the country and we compared that to the the Vatican City's best referee in their country, my money is on the Spanish referee being better. Much better. Because that referee has already had to prove he is better than tens of thousands of other hopeful referees. The Vatican City's has not had the same level of competition. This is clearly not a judgement on one nation of people being inferior as individuals. It is simply based on mathematical probability.

Of course, all the above assumes all other variables are equal. That probably isn't true either. I suspect England, Spain, Italy and Germany invest much more heavily in training referees (as unbelievable as that sounds) than the level of training referees get in very small countries.

No way should Usain Bolt have become the best in the world. He’s from a very small country, along with a number of others from the West Indies. Same with the long distance runners… The bigger footballing nations will produce more, it’s an economies of scale thing, but not necessarily better.

If anyone from any country is into any sport or refereeing, and puts in the commitment to be the best, they stand as good a chance as anyone else in the world.

 

[Swango1980]

Footballers are better in countries like England, Germany and Italy because they buy up all the best players from the smaller countries.

Haha

Yet when England play against San Marino, England are odds on to win the match

 

[Neilds]

Difference between this one snd the Elliott pen is that the opposition player was trying to get the ball, as said above Neuer made no effort, if Neuer had moved towards Saka I could of seen it given.

By that logic, no defender should try to make a tackle in the area so they don't give a way a penalty.

 

[Swango1980]

No way should Usain Bolt have become the best in the world. He’s from a very small country, along with a number of others from the West Indies. Same with the long distance runners… The bigger footballing nations will produce more, it’s an economies of scale thing, but not necessarily better.

If anyone from any country is into any sport or refereeing, and puts in the commitment to be the best, they stand as good a chance as anyone else in the world.

You obviously missed the very important point where I said "all other variables being equal"

Michael Johnsen did a very good documentary years ago about the successes Jamaica has in sprinting, and it certainly is not a good example of the point you are trying to make. If you are a white man from England, and are committed to be the best sprinter in the world, your odds of becoming the best sprinter in the world are still much less than the odds a young man from Jamaica has

 

[Swango1980]

We are talking about CL Referees! Not some bloke refing in a park!

Regardless of place of birth they have to meet the same standard, Spain may put forward 20 Refs and Estonia 1, but they will all be in equal in terms of being chosen for FIFA/UEFA list.

There will be a minimum standard required. They will not be equal. Otherwise you could say all Premier League referees are equal as they have a standard to meet.

Of that list of 21, maybe the Estonian referee would be the best of the lot (again, all other variables being equal). But, it is odds on that around 10 of the Spanish referees will be better (if the Estonian ranks 11-21 in the list). Yet, we are not going to have 10 Spanish referees selected, but the Estonian will be selected. What works in their favour is simply being a different nationality. Obviously, it's important for UEFA to select from a wide range of countries, especially as many of the biggest games in the final stages (and majority of teams) will be located in the big football nations, and referees need to be neutral.

 

[Hobbit]

There will be a minimum standard required. They will not be equal. Otherwise you could say all Premier League referees are equal as they have a standard to meet.

Of that list of 21, maybe the Estonian referee would be the best of the lot (again, all other variables being equal). But, it is odds on that around 10 of the Spanish referees will be better (if the Estonian ranks 11-21 in the list). Yet, we are not going to have 10 Spanish referees selected, but the Estonian will be selected. What works in their favour is simply being a different nationality. Obviously, it's important for UEFA to select from a wide range of countries, especially as many of the biggest games in the final stages (and majority of teams) will be located in the big football nations, and referees need to be neutral.

I really do think you’re splitting hairs. There’s every chance the best ref in the world could come from San Marino or Estonia. It’s not as likely as from one of the major footballing nations but it is possible. But with that in mind, why do the British refs get so much stick? They almost disproves your point. Supposedly one of the best leagues in the world yet…. It proves that the quality isn’t necessarily aligned to the league they reffing in.

 

[Junior]

I think United need a CB, a CM, a RB and someone across the front line who will bag 20+ in any position.

Also still not sold on your keeper but he's got better throughout the season

Having watched AWB a lot this year, I’d say when he’s played he’s been one of our best players on the pitch. He’d be even better with a good cb next to him. Dalots had a decent season aswell , mostly as a makeshift LB.

I think a decent CM and CB are absolutely required. Plus a second striker.

 

[Hobbit]

Having watched AWB a lot this year, I’d say when he’s played he’s been one of our best players on the pitch. He’d be even better with a good cb next to him. Dalots had a decent season aswell , mostly as a makeshift LB.

I think a decent CM and CB are absolutely required. Plus a second striker.

Do you think you have a decent leader on the pitch? Not impressed with Fernandez as captain…or am I missing something?

 

[Swango1980]

I really do think you’re splitting hairs. There’s every chance the best ref in the world could come from San Marino or Estonia. It’s not as likely as from one of the major footballing nations but it is possible. But with that in mind, why do the British refs get so much stick? They almost disproves your point. Supposedly one of the best leagues in the world yet…. It proves that the quality isn’t necessarily aligned to the league they reffing in.

Those two sentences in bold are completely at odds. You first try to make the point that there is "every chance" the best ref in the world will come from San Marino or Estonia, and then immediately say it is not as likely as one of the major football nations. Your second sentence in bold is exactly the point I am making!

Why do British refs get so much stick? Because we are pretty much all British on this forum. It would be weird if we were slagging off Spanish or Estonian referees every week in here, would it not? But, that is how this debate began. We consider Premier league referees to be the worst because we watch them in at least 10 games a week during the season, and fans will be spitting feathers when they don't get a decision. We don't place other referees under as much scrutiny. I mean, even French referees have been known to kick out at players

 

[Swango1980]

Do you think you have a decent leader on the pitch? Not impressed with Fernandez as captain…or am I missing something?

Nope. I imagine Fernandes was selected simply because he always plays, he is technically probably our best player and I'm sure he gets on well with the other players. Perhaps ETH felt giving him the Captaincy might help him to elevate his performances and become a proper leader. Sadly, this hasn't happened on the pitch. But, ETH didn't have a Roy Keane or Bryan Robson to pick instead.

Personally, from what I see on the pitch, I think Martinez is the only player that shows any real leadership qualities. He seems to lift everyone around him when he plays. So, of the current squad, I think he may be the only suitable alternative. Just a pity he has barely played this season.

 

[clubchamp98]

How many times have we seen in the PL fouls given when a striker just runs straight into a defender.

The defender dosnt make a challenge but a foul is given for what?

Because the striker milks it ,goes down with a triple salko and “ buys” the foul.
That’s the problem with PL refs they are to easily fooled imo by footballers.

It’s getting worse .
Keeper just stands his ground and Saka is the one who makes contact.
Elliot one for me was a stupid tackle in his line of run and he went over it seen them not given.

 

[Beezerk]

Because the striker milks it ,goes down with a triple salko and “ buys” the foul.

Can’t believe you didn’t put triple Saka

 

[clubchamp98]

Salko is a better player!

 

[Bdill93]

Having watched AWB a lot this year, I’d say when he’s played he’s been one of our best players on the pitch. He’d be even better with a good cb next to him. Dalots had a decent season aswell , mostly as a makeshift LB.

I think a decent CM and CB are absolutely required. Plus a second striker.

He offers little to nothing going forward though, I do agree he's a very solid player but he could be improved upon.

Dalot has done very well at times but neither of these guys compare to a Frimpong type of player.