The Footie Thread

[Swango1980]

Another two points deducted from Everton apparently. This is getting stupid now - just chuck a dice each month to decide how many points to take off or award to Everton. It's a joke of a system it really is.

Only read the breaking news, but trying to get my head around it.

The recent 2 points deduction was based on the 3 year period up to 22/23. The earlier 10 point deduction (reduced to 6) was for the 3 year period 21/22. It raises the following questions for me:

• If they can give a penalty up to 22/23, why did they not penalise Everton last year for the period up to 21/22? It almost seems like the PL have been tardy in checking the records for the last few years, and only playing catch up now.
• How do they set the level of points to be penalised, or is it all just a bit random? Are there any guidelines written down in black and white what the penalties are?
• If a club badly overspends in one year, that essentially causes them to be over budget for 3 consecutive 3-year periods, I suppose they just get a penalty three times over the next 3 year period?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Issue i see is other sports are not as dynamic as football. The PGMOL even employed an ex Rugby VAR coach to coach PL officials. That has worked well

The refs were making mistakes that rugby made earlier in their process and have since resolved. That was criminal. The big error, the game where the correct question was not asked by the ref and VAR. Basic stuff. The refs need to learn how to use it better, overrule a VAR more often for example instead of blindly agreeing.

In terms of dynamism, I'd like to see a time limit put on a review. If the VAR can not give a clear decision within a period of time, tbc, then the game carries on with the onfield decision. If it is a clear and obvious mistake then it should not take 5 minutes for a review. Rugby, cricket, A Football, has the time to spare within a game, football does not

 

[GB72]

I am also in favour of penalties only being applied on day one of a new season. Applying them now means that clubs could have played for draws in matches based on their league position whereas they may have gone all out if they knew about the deduction. It could, especially later in the season, impact on team selection and tactics.

 

[Orikoru]

Only read the breaking news, but trying to get my head around it.

The recent 2 points deduction was based on the 3 year period up to 22/23. The earlier 10 point deduction (reduced to 6) was for the 3 year period 21/22. It raises the following questions for me:

• If they can give a penalty up to 22/23, why did they not penalise Everton last year for the period up to 21/22? It almost seems like the PL have been tardy in checking the records for the last few years, and only playing catch up now.
• How do they set the level of points to be penalised, or is it all just a bit random? Are there any guidelines written down in black and white what the penalties are?
• If a club badly overspends in one year, that essentially causes them to be over budget for 3 consecutive 3-year periods, I suppose they just get a penalty three times over the next 3 year period?

Meanwhile they're still investigating breaches by City from 2015.

 

[samthom99]

The refs were making mistakes that rugby made earlier in their process and have since resolved. That was criminal. The big error, the game where the correct question was not asked by the ref and VAR. Basic stuff. The refs need to learn how to use it better, overrule a VAR more often for example instead of blindly agreeing.

In terms of dynamism, I'd like to see a time limit put on a review. If the VAR can not give a clear decision within a period of time, tbc, then the game carries on with the onfield decision. If it is a clear and obvious mistake then it should not take 5 minutes for a review. Rugby, cricket, A Football, has the time to spare within a game, football does not

And they are still making mistakes now. They are now calling the mistakes "subjective" now whenever theres a wrong decision made. VAR should only be used for "a matter of fact" calls and not "subjective" calls. Goal Line technology is the prime example.

 

[Orikoru]

I am also in favour of penalties only being applied on day one of a new season. Applying them now means that clubs could have played for draws in matches based on their league position whereas they may have gone all out if they knew about the deduction. It could, especially later in the season, impact on team selection and tactics.

That makes perfect sense. Luton haven't got a clue how many points they're going to need to stay up, at this rate they still won't have on the last day. Just let teams start the new season on -6 or -4 or whatever it is. Then everyone knows where they stand.

 

[samthom99]

Only read the breaking news, but trying to get my head around it.

The recent 2 points deduction was based on the 3 year period up to 22/23. The earlier 10 point deduction (reduced to 6) was for the 3 year period 21/22. It raises the following questions for me:

• If they can give a penalty up to 22/23, why did they not penalise Everton last year for the period up to 21/22? It almost seems like the PL have been tardy in checking the records for the last few years, and only playing catch up now.
• How do they set the level of points to be penalised, or is it all just a bit random? Are there any guidelines written down in black and white what the penalties are?
• If a club badly overspends in one year, that essentially causes them to be over budget for 3 consecutive 3-year periods, I suppose they just get a penalty three times over the next 3 year period?

Everton released their accounts last week and it was a stark reading at how badly the football club has been ran. 93% of their turnover is their wage bill!!

 

[PaulMdj]

Only read the breaking news, but trying to get my head around it.

The recent 2 points deduction was based on the 3 year period up to 22/23. The earlier 10 point deduction (reduced to 6) was for the 3 year period 21/22. It raises the following questions for me:

• If they can give a penalty up to 22/23, why did they not penalise Everton last year for the period up to 21/22? It almost seems like the PL have been tardy in checking the records for the last few years, and only playing catch up now.
• How do they set the level of points to be penalised, or is it all just a bit random? Are there any guidelines written down in black and white what the penalties are?
• If a club badly overspends in one year, that essentially causes them to be over budget for 3 consecutive 3-year periods, I suppose they just get a penalty three times over the next 3 year period?

It is done over a 3 year period, so first time was 3 years, this time it was the last 2 years of the first charge and the latest year added, next time it will be 1 year of the first charge, 1 year of the second charge and the latest year!

Part of Everton’s defence has been double jeopardy and the fact we have been working with the PL over the problem, even Lampard said recently that even during his period we couldn’t take a player on loan, never mind sign, unless prior authority was given by the PL.

Maybe they’ve accepted we’ve been previously punished for 2/3rds of this charge so only gave us 2 points.

 

[PaulMdj]

Everton released their accounts last week and it was a stark reading at how badly the football club has been ran. 93% of their turnover is their wage bill!!

Really? You have to take in to account the current owner has stopped putting money in to the Club, the “new” owners are awaiting PL takeover approval and the £200 million naming rights for the new stadium was lost when Russian Oligarch, Usamanov, was sanctioned by the government over Ukraine.

 

[Tashyboy]

Before VAR, I seem to remember many many people crying out for technology to stop wrong decisions. Not just clubs themselves, but fans. It was a common moan from fans when their team suffered an injustice.

So, I absolutely do not agree that VAR was brought in against the fans wishes, but it was brought in because there seemed to be a great desire for it, and it would improve the game.

However, in many respects, the implementation of it has been a nightmare, and actually ended up having the complete opposite impact that many wanted. And instead of making big changes to it to try and improve it, there is a bit of doubling down on things, as it is difficult for the authorities to admit they have made a hash of certain things.

Probably a good example of being careful what you wish for

Tis very true, but the people making mistakes ie referees are making bigger mistakes with VAR.

 

[PaulMdj]

Tis very true, but the people making mistakes ie referees are making bigger mistakes with VAR.

Are you sure? Or is it because the media highlight the errors, loads of big mistakes pre VAR and probably loads of decisions we just accepted.

 

[clubchamp98]

Can't believe how mental the Man Utd v Liverpool game was. Amazing entertainment! Liverpool must be kicking themselves for not being 3 up at half time and then gifting Utd a way back into it. Even then they had enough chances to win it. Man Utd are such a weird side. Terribly managed yet in the big games they occassionally turn on the workrate. Then a week or so later against sides like Bournemouth or Brentford they look disinterested.

I think not beating Utd in both games this season will most likely cost Liverpool the title. What's going on with Nunez? He's got something but when you see him in games like yesterday you can't help feel he's actually costing Liverpool points.

As for the title race, would love to see Arsenal do it but looking at the fixtures it looks City's.

It’s UTDs cup final every year they pull all the stops out in these games.

Nunez imho is a scorer of good goals but he’s not a good goalscorer.
He misses so much because he smashes the living daylights out of the ball.
His work rate is brilliant but that’s not enough sometimes.

Jotta is the best finisher we have but seems injured a lot now.

 

[clubchamp98]

Another two points deducted from Everton apparently. This is getting stupid now - just chuck a dice each month to decide how many points to take off or award to Everton. It's a joke of a system it really is.

Yet City go untouched.

 

[samthom99]

Really? You have to take in to account the current owner has stopped putting money in to the Club, the “new” owners are awaiting PL takeover approval and the £200 million naming rights for the new stadium was lost when Russian Oligarch, Usamanov, was sanctioned by the government over Ukraine.

Well they certainly showed that the sponsorship deals you had done via your owners other companies were actually above market rate.

Football clubs should not be bankrolled by 1 individual. Every club should be self sufficient.

Am i right in saying the prospective owners are actually lending Everton £20m per month for day to day running of the club?

 

[PaulMdj]

This weeks VAR Review. Clarifying a couple of points raised on here:

Why penalties stood for Liverpool and Arsenal, plus why Wolves' goal was disallowed

Liverpool and Arsenal both got contentious penalties in their games against Manchester United and Brighton, while Wolves were furious about offside.

www.espn.com

 

[GB72]

Well they certainly showed that the sponsorship deals you had done via your owners other companies were actually above market rate.

Football clubs should not be bankrolled by 1 individual. Every club should be self sufficient.

Am i right in saying the prospective owners are actually lending Everton £20m per month for day to day running of the club?

I may be wrong but from the figures released last week, I think only 3 Premier League clubs are self sufficient, Man City, Brighton and one other (think it was either Brentford or Burnley).

 

[Tashyboy]

Are you sure? Or is it because the media highlight the errors, loads of big mistakes pre VAR and probably loads of decisions we just accepted.

I think VAR was brought into eliminate the big problems. But it hasn’t

 

[PaulMdj]

Well they certainly showed that the sponsorship deals you had done via your owners other companies were actually above market rate.

Whose They?

Football clubs should not be bankrolled by 1 individual. Every club should be self sufficient.

No Club is totally self sufficient and why shouldn’t 1 individual bank roll them? By the way Everton aren’t, but the money Moshiri added to the pot made a difference.

Am i right in saying the prospective owners are actually lending Everton £20m per month for day to day running of the club?

No idea to be honest, different figures are being banded about, sometimes it’s higher.

 

[PaulMdj]

I think VAR was brought into eliminate the big problems. But it hasn’t

That’s it though Tashy, like I said the correct decisions out weigh the bad, but we focus on the bad and no system will ever be 100%, we keep getting told Rugby has it right, but there were contentious decisions in both the recent WC & 6 Nations.

 

[Reemul]

The reality is the ten point deduction was for last season, we dragged it out, appealed, offered little information and knew getting the deduction last season would have releagted us, so we stage managed getting it in to this season, that was our choice.

The 2 points given is fairly for this season, now as stated we could appeal and it may be the end of the season again before a decision is made.

The reality is we have run our club poorly, made really poor financial decisions, lying about covid to try and remove more loss and really we have no one to blame but ourselves for the current prediciment.

All of our fans that go on about corruption, blaming everyone else but our club are weak and looking as per usual to blame anyone else for the issues we ourselves have caused.

The annoying thing for me is there should have been a clear guide to the punishment any team would get when breaching these rules and there was not so it feels made up and implemented as and when. But let's not shirk from the reality of we made this mess and we are rolling around in it still. Just imagine if the guidelines said a 10 point deduction for breaching, we would be sitting at -20 and Forest -10 and we would be screwed.