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The Footie Thread

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Reemul said:
The reality is the ten point deduction was for last season, we dragged it out, appealed, offered little information and knew getting the deduction last season would have releagted us, so we stage managed getting it in to this season, that was our choice.

The 2 points given is fairly for this season, now as stated we could appeal and it may be the end of the season again before a decision is made.

The reality is we have run our club poorly, made really poor financial decisions, lying about covid to try and remove more loss and really we have no one to blame but ourselves for the current prediciment.

All of our fans that go on about corruption, blaming everyone else but our club are weak and looking as per usual to blame anyone else for the issues we ourselves have caused.

The annoying thing for me is there should have been a clear guide to the punishment any team would get when breaching these rules and there was not so it feels made up and implemented as and when. But let's not shirk from the reality of we made this mess and we are rolling around in it still. Just imagine if the guidelines said a 10 point deduction for breaching, we would be sitting at -20 and Forest -10 and we would be screwed.
Click to expand...

I really think relegation would be best for Everton, it's a chance to clear out the dross and high contracts and rebuild

Worked well for villa, Newcastle, us (west ham)

The more you cling on the harder it is to get the dross out
 
PJ87 said:
I really think relegation would be best for Everton, it's a chance to clear out the dross and high contracts and rebuild

Worked well for villa, Newcastle, us (west ham)

The more you cling on the harder it is to get the dross out
Click to expand...
Most of the dead weight contracts are now gone. Took too many years to get rid but that's what happens when you keep changing managers and each buys more dead weight. I think Gomes is the only one left on an inflated deal and that ends this June. Lovely player, injury has hurt him.

I'm not sure I want to take the risk. We may come back up or we may do a Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Derby etc. No guarantees in football.
 
Reemul said:
The reality is the ten point deduction was for last season, we dragged it out, appealed, offered little information and knew getting the deduction last season would have releagted us, so we stage managed getting it in to this season, that was our choice.

The 2 points given is fairly for this season, now as stated we could appeal and it may be the end of the season again before a decision is made.

The reality is we have run our club poorly, made really poor financial decisions, lying about covid to try and remove more loss and really we have no one to blame but ourselves for the current prediciment.

All of our fans that go on about corruption, blaming everyone else but our club are weak and looking as per usual to blame anyone else for the issues we ourselves have caused.

The annoying thing for me is there should have been a clear guide to the punishment any team would get when breaching these rules and there was not so it feels made up and implemented as and when. But let's not shirk from the reality of we made this mess and we are rolling around in it still. Just imagine if the guidelines said a 10 point deduction for breaching, we would be sitting at -20 and Forest -10 and we would be screwed.
Click to expand...
My thoughts on FFP, City etc are well known and personally I think FFP Is rammel.
If clubs are guilty and I am convinced my club is one of them. What exactly is the punishment. In a country that claims to have the best legal system in the world. We know what the punishment is for said crime. But for FFP it’s a lottery. What is it and where is it. And it’s a lottery that’s changing next year.
As I have said before does breaking ffp rules Mean you are running a Club poorly.
Are Utd breaking FFP, yet they are run poorly. Clubs can only lose £115 million over 3 years but £115 is massive to the blades, Luton and Bournemouth etc. But to City, Utd, Liverpool, Newcastle and others it’s nothing, so how’s that fair.
FFP for me has nothing to do with protecting clubs from
Going bust and more to do with protecting the top table.
 
Reemul said:
The reality is the ten point deduction was for last season, we dragged it out, appealed, offered little information and knew getting the deduction last season would have releagted us, so we stage managed getting it in to this season, that was our choice.

The 2 points given is fairly for this season, now as stated we could appeal and it may be the end of the season again before a decision is made.

The reality is we have run our club poorly, made really poor financial decisions, lying about covid to try and remove more loss and really we have no one to blame but ourselves for the current prediciment.

All of our fans that go on about corruption, blaming everyone else but our club are weak and looking as per usual to blame anyone else for the issues we ourselves have caused.

The annoying thing for me is there should have been a clear guide to the punishment any team would get when breaching these rules and there was not so it feels made up and implemented as and when. But let's not shirk from the reality of we made this mess and we are rolling around in it still. Just imagine if the guidelines said a 10 point deduction for breaching, we would be sitting at -20 and Forest -10 and we would be screwed.
Click to expand...
As another Everton fan I totally accept that we should be punished if found guilty of breaking the rules, I have no issue with that, however, a couple of points above I believe you are mistaken.

On the first charge, we were charged in Jun 23 by the PL and the independent commission set the date as 25th Oct, we didn’t drag our feet, the financial results were published in the March and clubs tried to get the PL to have the hearing before the end of the season, but stated they couldn’t, the commission once approved by the PL set the date in Oct.

The majority of fans know we’ve been run badly and wasted money, hence the fan protests etc, a minority may try and blame everyone else, but it’s wrong to tar all of them.

The corruption shouts are because we’ve had 4 independent commissions as of today and we’ve had 4 different results, a small example of this is Ukraine, today it was announced this commission accepted stadium prices had risen and we’d lost sponsorship due to the Oligarch ban, (we exceeded it by £19.5 million) the first commission did not accept those facts as mitigation and stated we should of made a provision! Really, how on earth were we meant to know Ukraine was to be invaded? If the first commission had accepted it, we would of been inside the £105million and had no case to answer.

Player X who was suspended on full pay while under Police investigation, we put a value of £10 million on him, had an offer on him at one stage, which was withdrawn and he waseventually released at end of contract with no charges brought from the Police investigation, again, the first commission stated they wouldn’t accept that as a mitigating factor.

Finally, last Sept the PL held a meeting to discuss punishments for FFP breaches, Everton asked for the minutes to be published, this has been refused by the PL to this day, hence the shouts of corruption. Why wouldn’t they publish the minutes? What are they hiding.

I totally agree we’ve been run badly for quite a few years and wasted money, it still doesn’t answer all the issues.
 
PJ87 said:
I really think relegation would be best for Everton, it's a chance to clear out the dross and high contracts and rebuild

Worked well for villa, Newcastle, us (west ham)

The more you cling on the harder it is to get the dross out
Click to expand...
Said no Everton fan ever! More teams have failed to come back up than the 3 you mention.
 
I’ve not looked at this thread today, so may have missed it if it’s been posted here, but I read elsewhere earlier that the back four which started for United against Liverpool yesterday was their TWENTY SEVENTH different back four this season. Leaving aside all United’s other problems, and there are many, that is a staggering statistic.
 
PJ87 said:
Not long established premier league teams tho?
Click to expand...
We’ve had more seasons in the top flight than any other team, also 2nd to Arsenal for continuous seasons.

They will stand for nothing if we are relegated, it could take years and years, history counts for nothing.
 
PaulMdj said:
We’ve had more seasons in the top flight than any other team, also 2nd to Arsenal for continuous seasons.

They will stand for nothing if we are relegated, it could take years and years, history counts for nothing.
Click to expand...

It's actually decent down in the championship, your win record jumps massively, see some great football. Some really good games down there

I remember when we first went down with the 42 points we used our clout to buy basically every good player in the league

Reo coker, harewood , got etherington from spurs, Zamora

Built a solid team and came up in 2 years

Second time we got big Sam in and bounced straight back

Cleared all the deadwood and are a lot stronger for it .
 
PJ87 said:
It's actually decent down in the championship, your win record jumps massively, see some great football. Some really good games down there

I remember when we first went down with the 42 points we used our clout to buy basically every good player in the league

Reo coker, harewood , got etherington from spurs, Zamora

Built a solid team and came up in 2 years

Second time we got big Sam in and bounced straight back

Cleared all the deadwood and are a lot stronger for it .
Click to expand...
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Without the points deduction we’d be in 14th position, we really aren’t a relegation team this season, last season? Absolutely.

Almost as if the PL have an agenda after asking for 17 points to be taken!
 
PJ87 said:
Not long established premier league teams tho?
Click to expand...

A quick Look at the current Championship table suggests there’s more that haven’t or won’t go straight back up. Leicester & Leeds may go straight back up, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Southampton joined them. Watford, down in 14th, won’t. And you’ve got some yo-yo clubs like Norwich and, to a lesser extent, The Boro. But what about West Brom, Hull City & Stoke? All had a decent spell in the Prem.

Yes, those that have had a number of seasons in the Prem have built an infrastructure and their squads are usually better but it definitely isn’t a given they’ll bounce back.

And anecdotal evidence like “we did it” doesn’t carry much water.

Personally, though I’d prefer promotion, I’d prefer the excitement of competing for the Championship than being the whipping dog for at least 8 teams in the Prem - almost guaranteed losing 16 matches without counting those swapped with teams of a similar level.
 
Hobbit said:
A quick Look at the current Championship table suggests there’s more that haven’t or won’t go straight back up. Leicester & Leeds may go straight back up, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Southampton joined them. Watford, down in 14th, won’t. And you’ve got some yo-yo clubs like Norwich and, to a lesser extent, The Boro. But what about West Brom, Hull City & Stoke? All had a decent spell in the Prem.

Yes, those that have had a number of seasons in the Prem have built an infrastructure and their squads are usually better but it definitely isn’t a given they’ll bounce back.

And anecdotal evidence like “we did it” doesn’t carry much water.

Personally, though I’d prefer promotion, I’d prefer the excitement of competing for the Championship than being the whipping dog for at least 8 teams in the Prem - almost guaranteed losing 16 matches without counting those swapped with teams of a similar level.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say stoke hull or west brom were ever established like Everton, villa, west ham or newcastle

It's like Bolton, came up for a while then left

The real team that disappeared not to return for ages was Leeds. They were a massive team

Charlton aswell

But the stokes? Not as big as Everton
 
PJ87 said:
I wouldn't say stoke hull or west brom were ever established like Everton, villa, west ham or newcastle

It's like Bolton, came up for a while then left

The real team that disappeared not to return for ages was Leeds. They were a massive team

Charlton aswell

But the stokes? Not as big as Everton
Click to expand...

Maybe it’s an age thing but the clubs you say have little history of top flight football were actually top clubs way back. And I guess you could say it’s the likes of them that, to a certain extent, disprove your theory. But, equally, it could be argued that they didn’t have the benefit of parachute payments that soften the blow of relegation.

As for the fairness of parachute payments, that’s a separate argument.

By the way, using Everton as an example is pushing it. It’s an outlier with a fantastic record of longevity in the top flight.
 
PJ87 said:
I wouldn't say stoke hull or west brom were ever established like Everton, villa, west ham or newcastle

It's like Bolton, came up for a while then left

The real team that disappeared not to return for ages was Leeds. They were a massive team

Charlton aswell

But the stokes? Not as big as Everton
Click to expand...
You are having Charlton as a massive club 😳. Bit of a London bias there. They did brilliantly for a number of years but massive..........no.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
You are having Charlton as a massive club 😳. Bit of a London bias there. They did brilliantly for a number of years but massive..........no.
Click to expand...

Think it's because they always used to beat us!

But still I don't think relegation will be a disaster for Everton
 
IanM said:
I remember Curbishley getting sacked because he stagnated Charlton in sixth position and never got any higher!😕🤕
Click to expand...

Curbs was a great manager , even for us. I loved when he sued (and won) for constructive dismissal at west ham because George McCarthey I think it was (or Anton Ferdinand) were sold without his permission (he had final say on transfers)

Unfortunately whilst he won and got paid he has had what 1 job in football since. Owners don't take kindly to being sued. Even when you are in the right
 
PJ87 said:
Curbs was a great manager , even for us. I loved when he sued (and won) for constructive dismissal at west ham because George McCarthey I think it was (or Anton Ferdinand) were sold without his permission (he had final say on transfers)

Unfortunately whilst he won and got paid he has had what 1 job in football since. Owners don't take kindly to being sued. Even when you are in the right
Click to expand...
I don't suppose any owners want a manager who insists they have the final say on transfers these days.
 
Swango1980 said:
I don't suppose any owners want a manager who insists they have the final say on transfers these days.
Click to expand...

I doubt that's what's stopped him getting another job, it's more the legal action when they broke it

Moyes has a lot of say on transfers

I've heard the board want him to sign a deal as a coach next time
 
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