The Footie Thread

[Reemul]

Causing significant life injuries isn't the bar they set for violent conduct though is it? So while I get the point you're making and where you're coming from, that view is sort of irrelevant.

It doesn't matter whether someone does a flying karate kick to the face, or a wimpy punch to the stomach - both are classed as violent conduct under the rules of the game. Most would probably agree that a flying karate kick to the face is the worse of the two offences but both carry the same on-field punishment of a red card. Maddison got away with it. Same as Yates got away with no yellow card for asking the ref to look at it on VAR.

And the fact is that for these "lesser" contacts such as the wimpy punch to the stomach, referees will not give them unless the player falls to the floor. We can argue about whether that's a refereeing problem, a player problem or a rules problem - but it's a fact. Virtually every player play-acts. It is part of the game. It will not change.

No but it can change, it needs to change but fans that are accepting of it or say you can’t change it are also part of the problem.

It’s like var, we need to push back not roll over and let them in by the front door. Don’t be so weak and stop using the can’t can’t can’t that’s how it happens. Push back, complain don’t be a sheep and follow the crowd, stand up for what you believe and talk about it highlight it and defend it or be like you are and be part of the problem.

Of course that’s a lot harder than going with the flow and lots of people are weak nowadays, anything for an easy life but to bitch about while doing nothing about it.

 

[Tashyboy]

Citys tough month was March. for Arsenal it is April. If they can get through that unscathed, the title and possibly other trophies are there’s. Bayern on paper is a walk over but the European cup is all they have to play for.
That aside, the best Liverpool team in a decade has played the worst Utd team in a decade 3 times this season and not won once.
Klopp now playing his mind games saying if Utd do not improve against Arsenal they will get beat.
Loving this title run in.
Squeaky bum time has started a month early.

 

[clubchamp98]

No but it can change, it needs to change but fans that are accepting of it or say you can’t change it are also part of the problem.

It’s like var, we need to push back not roll over and let them in by the front door. Don’t be so weak and stop using the can’t can’t can’t that’s how it happens. Push back, complain don’t be a sheep and follow the crowd, stand up for what you believe and talk about it highlight it and defend it or be like you are and be part of the problem.

Of course that’s a lot harder than going with the flow and lots of people are weak nowadays, anything for an easy life but to bitch about while doing nothing about it.

When’s the last time the powers that be took any notice of fans.

I have never met a match going fan that likes VAR.

It’s about money and TV full stop.

Fans are and have always been second.

 

[Don Barzini]

No but it can change, it needs to change but fans that are accepting of it or say you can’t change it are also part of the problem.

It’s like var, we need to push back not roll over and let them in by the front door. Don’t be so weak and stop using the can’t can’t can’t that’s how it happens. Push back, complain don’t be a sheep and follow the crowd, stand up for what you believe and talk about it highlight it and defend it or be like you are and be part of the problem.

Of course that’s a lot harder than going with the flow and lots of people are weak nowadays, anything for an easy life but to bitch about while doing nothing about it.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I used to completely agree with this sort of viewpoint. But I learned it was futile and that in the longer term would make me unhappier and only having the effect of spoiling my enjoyment.

I'm far happier taking the view that when my team is on the receiving end of it, it's annoying as hell but part of the game. But when a player from my team does it, celebrate them and embrace the shithousery. Because everyone else does.

No matter what fans say or do, nothing will change. Nothing.

 

[Swango1980]

Causing significant life injuries isn't the bar they set for violent conduct though is it? So while I get the point you're making and where you're coming from, that view is sort of irrelevant.

It doesn't matter whether someone does a flying karate kick to the face, or a wimpy punch to the stomach - both are classed as violent conduct under the rules of the game. Most would probably agree that a flying karate kick to the face is the worse of the two offences but both carry the same on-field punishment of a red card. Maddison got away with it. Same as Yates got away with no yellow card for asking the ref to look at it on VAR.

And the fact is that for these "lesser" contacts such as the wimpy punch to the stomach, referees will not give them unless the player falls to the floor. We can argue about whether that's a refereeing problem, a player problem or a rules problem - but it's a fact. Virtually every player play-acts. It is part of the game. It will not change.

Hence, read my second paragraph.

 

[Swango1980]

So double standards ?
No consistency that’s why the games a mess.

Agreed.

 

[Swango1980]

Citys tough month was March. for Arsenal it is April. If they can get through that unscathed, the title and possibly other trophies are there’s. Bayern on paper is a walk over but the European cup is all they have to play for.
That aside, the best Liverpool team in a decade has played the worst Utd team in a decade 3 times this season and not won once.
Klopp now playing his mind games saying if Utd do not improve against Arsenal they will get beat.
Loving this title run in.
Squeaky bum time has started a month early.

He is just being honest. He knows Arsenal are a lot better than Liverpool, and so Arsenal will win a match Liverpool could not.

 

[Swango1980]

When’s the last time the powers that be took any notice of fans.

I have never met a match going fan that likes VAR.

It’s about money and TV full stop.

Fans are and have always been second.

Before VAR, I seem to remember many many people crying out for technology to stop wrong decisions. Not just clubs themselves, but fans. It was a common moan from fans when their team suffered an injustice.

So, I absolutely do not agree that VAR was brought in against the fans wishes, but it was brought in because there seemed to be a great desire for it, and it would improve the game.

However, in many respects, the implementation of it has been a nightmare, and actually ended up having the complete opposite impact that many wanted. And instead of making big changes to it to try and improve it, there is a bit of doubling down on things, as it is difficult for the authorities to admit they have made a hash of certain things.

Probably a good example of being careful what you wish for

 

[Orikoru]

Before VAR, I seem to remember many many people crying out for technology to stop wrong decisions. Not just clubs themselves, but fans. It was a common moan from fans when their team suffered an injustice.

So, I absolutely do not agree that VAR was brought in against the fans wishes, but it was brought in because there seemed to be a great desire for it, and it would improve the game.

However, in many respects, the implementation of it has been a nightmare, and actually ended up having the complete opposite impact that many wanted. And instead of making big changes to it to try and improve it, there is a bit of doubling down on things, as it is difficult for the authorities to admit they have made a hash of certain things.

Probably a good example of being careful what you wish for

Nobody expected them to cock it up this badly! I didn't believe it was possible to get it as wrong as they have. It's almost like they've done it as badly as possible on purpose to make the 'be careful what you wish for' point.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If only football had not been the first sport to use video referees. If only another sport had used it before and football could have learnt from them............

 

[Swango1980]

Nobody expected them to cock it up this badly! I didn't believe it was possible to get it as wrong as they have. It's almost like they've done it as badly as possible on purpose to make the 'be careful what you wish for' point.

I think the biggest thing it highlights is that there are an incredible amount of subjective decisions in football, where one person thinks 100% in one direction, and another 100% the opposite.

There have probably only been a few howlers (like the Liverpool disallowed offside goal, or drawing lines on wrong player).

However, if you think of nearly all onfield decisions, like fouls and handballs, if VAR does not intervene then you will get a proportion of people that are 100% adamant it should have done. And if it does intervene, you get 100% of people that think it should not have done. You just need to listen to managers every weekend, who berate referees for a decision, yet you know had it things be reversed and their team benefitted, they'd agree with the decision. Many fans are an extreme version of managers in that respect.

It is only after the event, if you did a poll of opinions, where you may realise as a referee you are in the minority. If 95% of people think a decision should go one way, it matters little if the VAR is one of the 5% who thinks the opposite. At which point, calling the onfield referee over if usually going to be academic, as there'll be tens of thousands in the stadium, who have not seen the replay themselves, who expect the VAR people have seen an obvious mistake. So, there'll be carnage if the onfield ref sticks with the original decision (especially if it is against the home side). And the onfield ref will naturally think he must have missed something if, after 3 or 4 minutes of looking, his colleagues think there is enough evidence for a different decision.

Personally, I think they should just get rid, unless used for factual things like offside (if they can signal offside immediately)

 

[PaulMdj]

VAR still gets a lot more right than wrong, yes it still needs improvement, but some of the issues we fans moan about is our lack of understanding of the rules.

 

[4LEX]

Can't believe how mental the Man Utd v Liverpool game was. Amazing entertainment! Liverpool must be kicking themselves for not being 3 up at half time and then gifting Utd a way back into it. Even then they had enough chances to win it. Man Utd are such a weird side. Terribly managed yet in the big games they occassionally turn on the workrate. Then a week or so later against sides like Bournemouth or Brentford they look disinterested.

I think not beating Utd in both games this season will most likely cost Liverpool the title. What's going on with Nunez? He's got something but when you see him in games like yesterday you can't help feel he's actually costing Liverpool points.

As for the title race, would love to see Arsenal do it but looking at the fixtures it looks City's.

 

[Swango1980]

Can't believe how mental the Man Utd v Liverpool game was. Amazing entertainment! Liverpool must be kicking themselves for not being 3 up at half time and then gifting Utd a way back into it. Even then they had enough chances to win it. Man Utd are such a weird side. Terribly managed yet in the big games they occassionally turn on the workrate. Then a week or so later against sides like Bournemouth or Brentford they look disinterested.

I think not beating Utd in both games this season will most likely cost Liverpool the title. What's going on with Nunez? He's got something but when you see him in games like yesterday you can't help feel he's actually costing Liverpool points.

As for the title race, would love to see Arsenal do it but looking at the fixtures it looks City's.

Nunez is just like many golfers we know, excellent in some departments and horrific in others. Like the golfer that is a brilliant ball striker and hits it miles, but can't chip for toffee or had the putting yips.

Nunez gets good scores on some of his attributes, but his finishing is probably at the same level as Phil Jones or Gary Neville

 

[Orikoru]

Can't believe how mental the Man Utd v Liverpool game was. Amazing entertainment! Liverpool must be kicking themselves for not being 3 up at half time and then gifting Utd a way back into it. Even then they had enough chances to win it. Man Utd are such a weird side. Terribly managed yet in the big games they occassionally turn on the workrate. Then a week or so later against sides like Bournemouth or Brentford they look disinterested.

I think not beating Utd in both games this season will most likely cost Liverpool the title. What's going on with Nunez? He's got something but when you see him in games like yesterday you can't help feel he's actually costing Liverpool points.

As for the title race, would love to see Arsenal do it but looking at the fixtures it looks City's.

I also looked at the run-in yesterday and City do appear to have the easier fixtures left. And they were already favourites even without that, since winning the title is just run-of-the-mill stuff for them these days.

I actually think I'd rather Arsenal win it than Liverpool though. At least they have a couple of likeable players.

 

[Orikoru]

Another two points deducted from Everton apparently. This is getting stupid now - just chuck a dice each month to decide how many points to take off or award to Everton. It's a joke of a system it really is.

 

[GB72]

Another two points deducted from Everton apparently. This is getting stupid now - just chuck a dice each month to decide how many points to take or award back to Everton. It's a joke of a system it really is.

Should be a 'one and done' system with a statute of limitations. Not as if the Premier League is short of cash to fund it. Books handed over at the end of every season. 2 Years to check them over and bring charges. Charges can only be brought once, miss something and it is hard luck. After 2 years, if no charges are brought, nothing can be done.

To be honest, the league should be able to finance it so as they are checked and charges brought before the end of the following season but that may be a bit much.

 

[Orikoru]

Someone just told me that if they appeal, the decision will be made just after the season finishes. FA are probably loving it, they can turn that into a Judge Judy style reality show to see who gets voted out of the Premier League.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm not sure if I am relieved it is only 2 points or fuming that it is any points at all. Largely the latter I think.

There should be only one deduction per season, relating to whatever time frame is being looked at. Getting hit in the same season for different periods is plain wrong.

Then the number of points, 10, then 6, then another 2, Forest get 4. All a mess, no consistency. I've said it previously on here, the system will change next season and us and Forest will be the only two teams every docked in this way. For this reason alone I hope we both stay up. Being relegated on this basis would be wrong.

 

[samthom99]

If only football had not been the first sport to use video referees. If only another sport had used it before and football could have learnt from them............

Issue i see is other sports are not as dynamic as football. The PGMOL even employed an ex Rugby VAR coach to coach PL officials. That has worked well