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The Footie Thread

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Swango1980 said:
If we are judging the quality of players on price tag now, Man Utd have just become one of the best teams on the planet, Chelsea to.

Probably why Utd spent almost £100 million on Antony. They could have got him for £5 million, but chose to pay much more knowing the higher fee would elevate him to one of the greatest players in the world :)
Click to expand...
We're not.

Tashyboy suggested Arsenal missed an oppurtunnity, i quote Tashyboy, "to attack a city back 4 like that" as if it was a weakened under strength academy line up. I pointed out that the back 4 he is talking about actually played lots of games together and were valuable members of a city side, not bit part players, that won a treble last season ( without Gvardiol, who is top class anyway, and only improves the standard of the back 4). I guessed it was worth £200m plus but Tashy has informed me that it was "only" worth £191m which i've since apologised for not knowing.....

I thought it was a fair and balanced conversation between Tashyboy and i.

The rest is just nonsense.
 
Big night for Forest, big win. Equally big equaliser for Everton. Absolutely senseless from Dummet for the penalty.

We have to beat Burnley at the weekend, no excuses.

It's going to be massively tense for the rest of the season 😬
 
Shocking Fulham performance. Played straight into their hands and game plan. One point from Sheff United and Forest not good enough if are looking to improve and develop. Looking likely to be losing Toisin and Willian likely to call it a day. Palhinha likely to go for decent cash so another rebuild and still need a solid goalscorer as think Muniz is flattering to deceive. He will be a decent mid table PL player but not yet
 
Well said Martin Samuel

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/footba ... -75plw5b25


No apologies. When Howard Webb next sits down with Michael Owen to record his PGMOL blooper reel, the last thing the game needs is another round of self-excoriation.

Unlike Elton, sorry always seems to be the easiest word for Webb. But it’s too late. The damage is done, the result confirmed. It is nice that Webb is prepared to admit mistakes, it’s the polite thing to do, but ultimately nothing changes. And things need to change. The next time Webb goes in front of a camera he should ensure that gameweek 30 is the last time Anthony Gordon, or any other player, can win a penalty like that. Win a penalty without making a serious attempt to play the ball.

What happened in the game between Newcastle United and West Ham United on Saturday was a travesty. Everyone who has played knows it and most observers, too. Gordon is making it his party trick, but he’s not the only one. And Webb has the power to stop it. He just needs to start using his platform for good, rather than for public relations.

Late in the second half of the match at St James’ Park, with West Ham leading 3-1, after pressure in the visiting side’s box, Kalvin Phillips was preparing to clear the ball. Gordon, from behind, put a leg in the space where Phillips would swing his boot to make that clearance. He didn’t play the ball, or really attempt to play it. He just put a leg there. And because he was on Phillips’s blind side, as he made to clear he kicked Gordon’s leg. Rob Jones, the referee, who is not good enough, did not give a penalty but David Coote, the VAR, who is also not good enough, summoned him to the pitchside monitor for review. The inept Jones was then influenced by an equally inept colleague, the penalty was awarded and Newcastle scored. It does not follow that West Ham go on to lose 4-3 — that is on them — but it was certainly a significant moment.

Yet what if it had happened at the other end? Take the play into the Newcastle penalty area. Phillips is in a good position, preparing to shoot at goal, Gordon attempts to defend the shot by putting a leg in front of him, but doesn’t play the ball. Phillips swings his boot and trips over the outstretched limb. Verdict: penalty, 100 per cent. But it’s the same action. So how can it be a foul on the Newcastle player at one end, but a foul on the West Ham player at the other? It’s a con, that’s why. It’s not a real tackle, not a real challenge. It is a ruse to fool the referee. And it will continue succeeding unless Webb intervenes.

Jamie Vardy used to get away with similar antics. Harry Kane, too. Vardy at his peak had devastating pace and a way of initiating contact with the defender in pursuit. He fell and made his opponent look devious, clumsy or careless. The record confirms his success as a penalty winner — 23, the second highest in Premier League history. Yet Raheem Sterling, who tops the table with 26, has played for big clubs that make a lot of chances — Liverpool, Manchester City and Chelsea.

Vardy’s 23 have all come for Leicester across nine Premier League seasons, three of which have involved bottom-half finishes — including one relegation — and only one of which has seen the club in the top four. Vardy’s ability to earn penalties was very big for Leicester. Yet, over time, it was increasingly highlighted that it was Vardy who made sure he was tripped. He would leave a leg trailing, he would slightly change course or slow. And sometimes he would be genuinely fouled, because he’s a very quick, very dangerous, striker. Yet scepticism grew. Then he wasn’t winning as many penalties, then he started picking up yellow cards, then it stopped being such an issue.

The same with Kane, who used to back into defenders and fall forward to win the foul — it was a well-worn tactic and Mark Hughes was brilliant at it. Again, that stopped once it was publicly noted. Yet those raising questions didn’t have anything like the influence over referees that Webb has now. He could put a stop to this latest trick in one broadcast.

Other changes require outside help. In the same match, Fabian Schär fouled Mohammed Kudus, but appeared to be caught by his arm as he did. Schär went down holding his head, although replays showed the contact was minimal. West Ham asked to take a quick free kick, which Jones permitted, even though Schär was still on the ground. As play is supposed to stop for a head injury, this rather suggests he felt the player was exaggerating the consequences. Then West Ham scored and Newcastle were outraged; even Schär, who seemed to make a robust recovery.

Again: shouldn’t happen. A decent intention regarding player welfare, inspired by increased awareness of issues around head trauma, is increasingly used as a means of stopping or slowing the play. Jamie Carragher highlighted it earlier in the season when Nicolò Zaniolo, of Aston Villa, went down in a match with West Ham. “People are milking head injuries,” he said. “It’s ruining the game. Players go down when they lose the ball in a dangerous position and the referee feels he has to blow the whistle. This has to stop, it’s happening too much. It was brought in to help players and they’re now taking advantage.”

He was right, of course. The problem is, without concussion substitutes, football leaves itself open to accusations of negligence unless it takes head injuries seriously. Yet there is a way of maintaining player welfare, while also preventing a sound initiative being abused. Make concussion checks mandatory for any player claiming to have suffered a head blow, certainly one that puts them on the floor. The counter-argument will be that this would make players hide head injuries rather than send the team down to ten men, but that is where concussion substitutes come in, if used as they are in rugby.

Nobody who had suffered a serious head injury would stay on the field, knowing a replacement could come on, and maybe some of the eyelash-clutchers would treat a brush with the hand as the irrelevance it is. Not something that Webb could enforce, unilaterally, but surely worth a discussion the next time Ifab meet up to ruin the game?

In the meantime, though, Webb surely does have the power to make the referees under his command listen. Football doesn’t need another mea culpa. It just needs to be reacquainted with what a foul really is.
 
Emery will be absolutely raging with that wall, they’ve played well and going in at 1-1 would have been a fair reflection on the first half.
 
PJ87 said:
Well said Martin Samuel

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/footba ... -75plw5b25


No apologies. When Howard Webb next sits down with Michael Owen to record his PGMOL blooper reel, the last thing the game needs is another round of self-excoriation.

Unlike Elton, sorry always seems to be the easiest word for Webb. But it’s too late. The damage is done, the result confirmed. It is nice that Webb is prepared to admit mistakes, it’s the polite thing to do, but ultimately nothing changes. And things need to change. The next time Webb goes in front of a camera he should ensure that gameweek 30 is the last time Anthony Gordon, or any other player, can win a penalty like that. Win a penalty without making a serious attempt to play the ball.

What happened in the game between Newcastle United and West Ham United on Saturday was a travesty. Everyone who has played knows it and most observers, too. Gordon is making it his party trick, but he’s not the only one. And Webb has the power to stop it. He just needs to start using his platform for good, rather than for public relations.

Late in the second half of the match at St James’ Park, with West Ham leading 3-1, after pressure in the visiting side’s box, Kalvin Phillips was preparing to clear the ball. Gordon, from behind, put a leg in the space where Phillips would swing his boot to make that clearance. He didn’t play the ball, or really attempt to play it. He just put a leg there. And because he was on Phillips’s blind side, as he made to clear he kicked Gordon’s leg. Rob Jones, the referee, who is not good enough, did not give a penalty but David Coote, the VAR, who is also not good enough, summoned him to the pitchside monitor for review. The inept Jones was then influenced by an equally inept colleague, the penalty was awarded and Newcastle scored. It does not follow that West Ham go on to lose 4-3 — that is on them — but it was certainly a significant moment.

Yet what if it had happened at the other end? Take the play into the Newcastle penalty area. Phillips is in a good position, preparing to shoot at goal, Gordon attempts to defend the shot by putting a leg in front of him, but doesn’t play the ball. Phillips swings his boot and trips over the outstretched limb. Verdict: penalty, 100 per cent. But it’s the same action. So how can it be a foul on the Newcastle player at one end, but a foul on the West Ham player at the other? It’s a con, that’s why. It’s not a real tackle, not a real challenge. It is a ruse to fool the referee. And it will continue succeeding unless Webb intervenes.

Jamie Vardy used to get away with similar antics. Harry Kane, too. Vardy at his peak had devastating pace and a way of initiating contact with the defender in pursuit. He fell and made his opponent look devious, clumsy or careless. The record confirms his success as a penalty winner — 23, the second highest in Premier League history. Yet Raheem Sterling, who tops the table with 26, has played for big clubs that make a lot of chances — Liverpool, Manchester City and Chelsea.

Vardy’s 23 have all come for Leicester across nine Premier League seasons, three of which have involved bottom-half finishes — including one relegation — and only one of which has seen the club in the top four. Vardy’s ability to earn penalties was very big for Leicester. Yet, over time, it was increasingly highlighted that it was Vardy who made sure he was tripped. He would leave a leg trailing, he would slightly change course or slow. And sometimes he would be genuinely fouled, because he’s a very quick, very dangerous, striker. Yet scepticism grew. Then he wasn’t winning as many penalties, then he started picking up yellow cards, then it stopped being such an issue.

The same with Kane, who used to back into defenders and fall forward to win the foul — it was a well-worn tactic and Mark Hughes was brilliant at it. Again, that stopped once it was publicly noted. Yet those raising questions didn’t have anything like the influence over referees that Webb has now. He could put a stop to this latest trick in one broadcast.

Other changes require outside help. In the same match, Fabian Schär fouled Mohammed Kudus, but appeared to be caught by his arm as he did. Schär went down holding his head, although replays showed the contact was minimal. West Ham asked to take a quick free kick, which Jones permitted, even though Schär was still on the ground. As play is supposed to stop for a head injury, this rather suggests he felt the player was exaggerating the consequences. Then West Ham scored and Newcastle were outraged; even Schär, who seemed to make a robust recovery.

Again: shouldn’t happen. A decent intention regarding player welfare, inspired by increased awareness of issues around head trauma, is increasingly used as a means of stopping or slowing the play. Jamie Carragher highlighted it earlier in the season when Nicolò Zaniolo, of Aston Villa, went down in a match with West Ham. “People are milking head injuries,” he said. “It’s ruining the game. Players go down when they lose the ball in a dangerous position and the referee feels he has to blow the whistle. This has to stop, it’s happening too much. It was brought in to help players and they’re now taking advantage.”

He was right, of course. The problem is, without concussion substitutes, football leaves itself open to accusations of negligence unless it takes head injuries seriously. Yet there is a way of maintaining player welfare, while also preventing a sound initiative being abused. Make concussion checks mandatory for any player claiming to have suffered a head blow, certainly one that puts them on the floor. The counter-argument will be that this would make players hide head injuries rather than send the team down to ten men, but that is where concussion substitutes come in, if used as they are in rugby.

Nobody who had suffered a serious head injury would stay on the field, knowing a replacement could come on, and maybe some of the eyelash-clutchers would treat a brush with the hand as the irrelevance it is. Not something that Webb could enforce, unilaterally, but surely worth a discussion the next time Ifab meet up to ruin the game?

In the meantime, though, Webb surely does have the power to make the referees under his command listen. Football doesn’t need another mea culpa. It just needs to be reacquainted with what a foul really is.
Click to expand...
You can tell he is a West Ham fan
 
Swango1980 said:
You can tell he is a West Ham fan
Click to expand...
Doesn't make him wrong tho lol .

There is a very long youtube video from an American who hits the nail on the head

Explains how basket ball used to have a problem like this. Where there was this player who always used to buy fouls. Used to be if your arm was hit when taking a shot it's a foul so he would wait wait until the arm was thrown then take a shot so it hit his arm , foul

They tweaked the laws to stop it
 
PJ87 said:
Doesn't make him wrong tho lol .

There is a very long youtube video from an American who hits the nail on the head

Explains how basket ball used to have a problem like this. Where there was this player who always used to buy fouls. Used to be if your arm was hit when taking a shot it's a foul so he would wait wait until the arm was thrown then take a shot so it hit his arm , foul

They tweaked the laws to stop it
Click to expand...
If a player goes to make a challenge, win the ball and don't kick an opponent.

If a player goes to kick the ball, kick it and not another player.

Mind you, I don't see a major problem. It isn't every week that a player tries to kick a ball and wipes out an opponent instead
 
Swango1980 said:
If a player goes to make a challenge, win the ball and don't kick an opponent.

If a player goes to kick the ball, kick it and not another player.

Mind you, I don't see a major problem. It isn't every week that a player tries to kick a ball and wipes out an opponent instead
Click to expand...

The key part is if the same situation had happened the other end Phillips would have 100% got a penalty as he would have been trying to shoot and the oppo got in the way ..

So it shouldn't be a pen for the being mid clearance and the oppo getting in the way.
 
PJ87 said:
The key part is if the same situation had happened the other end Phillips would have 100% got a penalty as he would have been trying to shoot and the oppo got in the way ..

So it shouldn't be a pen for the being mid clearance and the oppo getting in the way.
Click to expand...
So, players can try and smash a ball and not worry about kicking someone before kicking the ball? Or is it only if they were not aware the opponent was close enough to be able to get between them and the ball?
 
Swango1980 said:
So, players can try and smash a ball and not worry about kicking someone before kicking the ball? Or is it only if they were not aware the opponent was close enough to be able to get between them and the ball?
Click to expand...

Gordon made zero attempt to play the ball. That's the difference. His only aim was to get hit.
 
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