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The Footie Thread

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Swango1980 said:
You may be bored of it, but you keep hearing it because it is true.

My response was to the comment that a manager may choose not to go to United as some see it as a "poisoned chalice". If the manager was the only person to blame, then nobody would be making comments like that.

Interesting you are bring Chelsea into the conversation, given their performances of late. Things may have gone well when Abramovich first took over, but they were the first of their kind and shook the PL. It would have been an exciting time for Chelsea, where they could just splash the cash. That sort of chaos isn't a great tactic anymore. FFP will limit what you can do, but there are also too many mega wealthy owners at other clubs, that you'll struggle to do well if you just irresponsibly splash money.

And, I will keep saying, ETH did a lot right last year. Yet, this year, everything that can go wrong seems to be going wrong off the pitch at Utd. We had a pretty good side of players, but it was fragile. Defensively, we've been decimated. We've struggled for cover in other areas, only one striker effectively as well, and Rashford has all but given up. I'm not sure ETH could have predicted Rashford's weakened mentality, given what he did last year. Even if he isn't anywhere near as technically good as most City player, I'm sure ETH would at least see him as a big threat in moments, and could still help us progress more this year as he continues to build a team over a few years. But, I'm not sure how you could play a nice style of football with players like Rashford at the club, he has demonstrated beyond doubt this season that if he gets one minor set back, he is gone. Off the ball, you are down to 10 men. And, even some of those 10 men are not very good off the ball. I don't think that is the managers fault, I just think they are really really poor players. They all have one attribute that may be really excellent, but many of them are absolutely below par in many many other aspects of the game. It seems to be why we can only produce in moments. I'm not sure many of the players at all have been signed, or coached from a kid, to be excellent off the ball players.

I'm not saying ETH is going to be the greatest manager the PL has ever seen, or that he will go on to be considered a success. But, I'm saying I have zero confidence any other manager would be doing a better job up to this point, given the circus we had last year, and the squad being decimated this year. So far, I've not heard anybody confidently and definitively tell me a manager who could come to Utd and do a better job, and that Utd should sack ETH immediately to get that guy. I'd rather the owners try and sort the structure first, and then focus on the manager after. If they rush in and try and change too many things, then if things do or don't go well, it may be less obvious what change had the biggest impact.
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Plenty have picked their guy and then built a backroom to support them to success.

Id have been on the phone to Zidane far sooner.
 
Bdill93 said:
Plenty have picked their guy and then built a backroom to support them to success.

Id have been on the phone to Zidane far sooner.
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Zidane!? To me, that is simply picking a manager because they are a big name in the game. He hasn't managed since 2021. And, when he did manage Real Madrid, they were probably at the peak of their powers, with some of the worlds greatest players at the prime of their careers. Yes, did well in the Champions League with that amazing group of players, but I still always felt they generally where underdogs to Barcelona domestically.

So, I'm not convinced he can just waltz into Man Utd, and within a few seasons get them to a Champions League winning side. Can he even speak English, it would be helpful?

If Zidane was that big a catch, I wonder why other clubs haven't snapped him up since 2021?
 
Swango1980 said:
Zidane!? To me, that is simply picking a manager because they are a big name in the game. He hasn't managed since 2021. And, when he did manage Real Madrid, they were probably at the peak of their powers, with some of the worlds greatest players at the prime of their careers. Yes, did well in the Champions League with that amazing group of players, but I still always felt they generally where underdogs to Barcelona domestically.

So, I'm not convinced he can just waltz into Man Utd, and within a few seasons get them to a Champions League winning side. Can he even speak English, it would be helpful?

If Zidane was that big a catch, I wonder why other clubs haven't snapped him up since 2021?
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I imagine because he is waiting for another great opportunity for success to be honest. His record is rather brilliant :ROFLMAO:

You need a name that can control top top players, he's proved that in abundance and more so than many other managers that could be considered.
 
Bdill93 said:
I imagine because he is waiting for another great opportunity for success to be honest. His record is rather brilliant :ROFLMAO:

You need a name that can control top top players, he's proved that in abundance and more so than many other managers that could be considered.
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In relation to ETH, if Utd had been playing this style of football since his arrival, of course the writing would be on the wall, even for me. But, it hasn't been that way. Last season Utd didn't play like City, but after the opening 2 abysmal defeats in the league, and bar one or 2 other car crashes through the season, I think most Utd fans were really happy with the performances. I don't remember being bored to tears on many occasions. I likes how Utd played, even with the likes of Weghorst, Antony and McFred in the side, and the challenges of dealing with Ronaldo, Maguire issues and probably Sancho.

In terms of being able to control players, these things only come out when a team doesn't do well. How many managers fully control players? Mourinho didn't at Man Utd, surely some would put him in that category of controlling players? Did Zidane control his Real Madrid players? I seem to remember him and Bale were not on great terms?

Besides, if we are talking about players "out of control" since ETH started, who are they? Ronaldo and Sancho, for sure. Rashford and probably Varane. These players were at the club before ETH started. Rashford and Sancho have probably had issues for years, and Ronaldo was probably always likely to kick off after Utd failed to get Champions League. And, unhappy players will always be highlighted to the nth degree at Man Utd, just as everything is when they lose a game. There are probably loads of unhappy players at other clubs not doing very well, but honestly, nobody cares so we don't really hear about it.
 
Swango1980 said:
In relation to ETH, if Utd had been playing this style of football since his arrival, of course the writing would be on the wall, even for me. But, it hasn't been that way. Last season Utd didn't play like City, but after the opening 2 abysmal defeats in the league, and bar one or 2 other car crashes through the season, I think most Utd fans were really happy with the performances. I don't remember being bored to tears on many occasions. I likes how Utd played, even with the likes of Weghorst, Antony and McFred in the side, and the challenges of dealing with Ronaldo, Maguire issues and probably Sancho.

In terms of being able to control players, these things only come out when a team doesn't do well. How many managers fully control players? Mourinho didn't at Man Utd, surely some would put him in that category of controlling players? Did Zidane control his Real Madrid players? I seem to remember him and Bale were not on great terms?

Besides, if we are talking about players "out of control" since ETH started, who are they? Ronaldo and Sancho, for sure. Rashford and probably Varane. These players were at the club before ETH started. Rashford and Sancho have probably had issues for years, and Ronaldo was probably always likely to kick off after Utd failed to get Champions League. And, unhappy players will always be highlighted to the nth degree at Man Utd, just as everything is when they lose a game. There are probably loads of unhappy players at other clubs not doing very well, but honestly, nobody cares so we don't really hear about it.
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ETH did well with the Ronaldo situation in my opinion.

Inherited or purchased, a good manager will get all the players buying in or ship them out. What would be concerning to me is that Rashford looked like he was - and now doesn't. But you wont ship him anywhere.

Mourinho is well publicised that he has 2 good years(ish) before the whole place comes tumbling down. Not very comparable.

Do you honestly believe ETH is the guy to lead you to a title? If not whos your next choice?
 
Bdill93 said:
ETH did well with the Ronaldo situation in my opinion.

Inherited or purchased, a good manager will get all the players buying in or ship them out. What would be concerning to me is that Rashford looked like he was - and now doesn't. But you wont ship him anywhere.

Mourinho is well publicised that he has 2 good years(ish) before the whole place comes tumbling down. Not very comparable.

Do you honestly believe ETH is the guy to lead you to a title? If not whos your next choice?
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I'm sure at many clubs, shipping players out is pretty straight forward. Not at Utd, when so many of them are on monumental wages, and will get nowhere near those wages anywhere else. It almost seems like it has all become expected, when players like Martial and Phil Jones kept getting great contracts.

One thing that I have considered is that we have too many of the players grown to become too comfortable. They've grown into the club, made a bunch of mates and just expect contracts to be renewed and to continue earning well above what they are worth? Around about when ETH came in, we finally started to get rid of players like Pogba, Lingard, Matic, Cavani, Mata and Ronaldo. I'm sure some would have gone anyway, but others might have been a surprise to some players, and started to make them feel uncomfortable. This year we've pretty much got rid of Sancho, Fred left and De Gea didn't get a contract renewal. Was De Gea great mates with many of the players having been there so long (certainly seen a few photos of them continuing to socialize together). Have these players disagreed with the decision to let him go, and has that resulted in a poor mentality of some players? Do some of these players moan behind ETHs back about him being happy to let certain players go? Does Rashford feel more isolated now that some of his good friends are no longer there? Are they good mates with Martial, and uncomfortable that he could be the next to be shipped off into the night?

When the new manager came in (who was ETH in the end), everyone agreed Man Utd needed a huge clearout. Easier said than done. This isn't a computer game or fantasy football. Clearing out many players is probably going to upset many of those players, who are well paid and have a settled family life. It may also upset many players that stay, who have built up great friendships for maybe the best part of a decade at the club in some cases. So, maybe at Utd, the shambolic way in which the club has been built to this point has resulted in the poor mentality of players we now have? But, give a manager 3-4 seasons to continue with the clear-out, then you'd hope by the end of it you will have removed the "bad eggs" within the squad, and instead have players that buy in to a different and hopefully better culture.

So, in regards to your last question. I don't know is the answer, but there has been enough about him for me to believe he can eventually bring a more consistent style of football, and attractive style of football to the club. But, if he still hasn't been able to do so by the end of next season, with a few more fresh faces and hopefully even a few less injuries from this nightmare season, then I may then decide his time is up. But I'd be happier that getting rid of him is based on a more informed decision. If we were to get rid now, I've no idea who would be better. I'd support them, of course. But, every time the press get giddy about a manager, it is usually only a matter of time that this manager has a run of poor results, and everyone is a lot more quiet on that manager. Certainly not Zidane, based on what I said before. And, I just don't know enough about managers around the world to know who is good outside this country. I really didn't know much about ETH before he was on our shortlist
 
Liverpoolphil said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1764625596653412531


Not good by any stretch
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so much to question here. Why are the Liverpool coaching staff getting involved with fans (which is probably making matters worse)? Why are the stewards utterly useless?

I understand the frustration; it wasn’t just saturday’s decision, we’ve had 4 (I think) apologies from PGMOL this season and have lost at least 6 points because of referees not doing their jobs correctly. It may very well end up being the difference between us staying up and going down.

It was a culmination of a number of ridiculous decisions this season (ie Willy Boly getting sent off for putting in a really good tackle, causing us to play with 10 men for a large chunk of the game) and it’s finally the straw that broke the camel’s back.

But, nonetheless, awful, ugly scenes that shouldn’t have happened.
 
Aztecs27 said:
so much to question here. Why are the Liverpool coaching staff getting involved with fans (which is probably making matters worse)? Why are the stewards utterly useless?

I understand the frustration; it wasn’t just saturday’s decision, we’ve had 4 (I think) apologies from PGMOL this season and have lost at least 6 points because of referees not doing their jobs correctly. It may very well end up being the difference between us staying up and going down.

It was a culmination of a number of ridiculous decisions this season (ie Willy Boly getting sent off for putting in a really good tackle, causing us to play with 10 men for a large chunk of the game) and it’s finally the straw that broke the camel’s back.

But, nonetheless, awful, ugly scenes that shouldn’t have happened.
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You'll stay up so long as you avoid any deductions. Super computers have said so. :ROFLMAO:
 
Bdill93 said:
You'll stay up so long as you avoid any deductions. Super computers have said so. :ROFLMAO:
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The trouble with that is - I'm almost certain we're getting a points deduction - which is what makes it worse. 😅

Tashyboy said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Fan berates Bundesliga players after 6-0 defeat

Watch the moment an 'ultra' Darmstadt fan berates the players on the pitch after their 6-0 home Bundesliga defeat by Augsburg.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

And that my friends is when you care, when it’s your religion, when it is your Saturday 3 pm, when it is your life.
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And this leads on from my reply to the Forest fans getting angry at the end of the game. The fans (particularly those in A and B block in the main stand, which is where that was filmed from) - pay their money, week in, week out and are generally long time season ticket holders.

We've seen a lot of despair in the last 25 years - A LOT along with a lot of weirdness. If you've got an Athletic sub, read this: https://theathletic.com/5203653/202...ries-that-present-a-weird-and-wonderful-club/ it's literally the tip of the iceberg.

Finally make it back to the Premier League and although we've not always helped ourselves, seeing multiple instances of incompetent refereeing which has robbed us of points...and not seeing them "even out over the season"; it's finally reached breaking point for a lot of these fans. (FWIW, I don't think there's some grand conspiracy)
 
Tashyboy said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Fan berates Bundesliga players after 6-0 defeat

Watch the moment an 'ultra' Darmstadt fan berates the players on the pitch after their 6-0 home Bundesliga defeat by Augsburg.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

And that my friends is when you care, when it’s your religion, when it is your Saturday 3 pm, when it is your life.
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This is the next step on from Phil Brown having a go at the Hull players at half time.

What next? Marcus Rashford's mum screaming at the players on the pitch, slating Bruno for playing careless passes to her son and making him look a fool?
 
Liverpoolphil said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1764625596653412531


Not good by any stretch
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Just to add more context to this;

https://twitter.com/x/status/1764649018758418713

Still doesn't make it right - but when you have a volatile situation anyway and the players are goading the (already angry) fans, it's going to make it worse. Robbo and the like should really have read the room.

Also - I should note - that those blocks are probably the most rowdy in the ground - why a mother is taking her young child there (the family block is the other end of the stand or you could go anywhere in the Trent end or Brian Clough), begs belief. Even more shocking if they're Liverpool fans in the home end (no way to tell whether or not from the video)
 
Last edited:
Aztecs27 said:
Just to add more context to this;

https://twitter.com/x/status/1764649018758418713

Still doesn't make it right - but when you have a volatile situation anyway and the players are goading the (already angry) fans, it's going to make it worse. Robbo and the like should really have read the room.

Also - I should note - that those blocks are probably the most rowdy in the ground - why a mother is taking her young child there (the family block is the other end of the stand or you could go anywhere in the Trent end or Brian Clough), begs belief. Even more shocking if they're Liverpool fans in the home end (no way to tell whether or not from the video)
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Robertson is a disgrace of a player anyway, I'd expect it from him :)
 
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